On Strategies for Dealing with Narcissists in Family and Social Circles

I find I’m getting regular private messages now from people who see a Narcissist in their lives, and want to know where to go, and what to read, to figure out how to deal with them. It has made me realize, this site may give excellent info on how to deal with Narcissists in the political world, and in public debate within that world, but terrible info on how to deal with them in the personal world. So here are some comments and questions I have heard, and thoughts on them.

My Narcissist is only a moderate version of what you describe…..

Maybe, maybe not. Narcissists are like deep cover CIA operatives, only more so, because they don’t remember a time when they weren’t operating under a cover identity – it is second nature to them, and they often will even convince themselves that their cover identity is real. They really are nice, selfless, discriminated against, victimized, etc. See that Narcissist who just shot up his office? He really believed he had been victimized, when his boss fired him for raging at his coworkers every day, and threatening to kill them. It was the boss’s fault.

When the Narcissist was a child, and they let their noxious personality range free and unfettered, their peers recognized them as defective in some regard, and tormented them. They quickly realized they needed to pretend to be normal, and they did. Every time they transgressed as a child, by letting their real personality out, they were punished with ostracization. As a result, they ended up conditioned from their earliest years, like a child prodigy, to never allow anyone to know what they are, or how they think. Combined with their neural wiring, designed to believe whatever makes them feel good, they ended up being like evil secret agents who believed their own noble cover. It’s very difficult to read a person easily, when they probably can’t read themselves.

Their ability to manipulate is enhanced because they see others around them who are so different – people bound by human urges the Narcissist views as patently ridiculous. Highlighted by their perceived anomaly, these “human” urges quickly become an easy means of manipulating their peers, further allowing them to conceal their motives and behavioral drives. You do something nice, once, to earn loyalty, and then you harken back to it every time you screw your victim, so they feel you are loyal, and you aren’t screwing them purposely. In the Narcissist’s mind, it is ridiculously simple, and you are stupid for not seeing it. In your mind, “Why would he screw me when we have a loyal relationship, and I would go to bat for him?”

As young Narcissists, these individuals will have been molded relentlessly by these circumstances, to be Mozarts of the Machiavellian world, playing the people around them like fine musical instruments. They have been rigorously trained, from the earliest ages, and being young will have more than enough cognitive capacity to mask their noxious natures behind facades which appear all too real. As they get older, they lose cognitive capacity, and the mask will begin to slip. Additional stresses, like advancing age, reduced attractiveness, and others around them who are young and have their whole lives ahead of them, will all coalesce into a psychic stress which will further erode cognitive capacity. At this point, they will become much easier to spot. But when young, and on top of the world, they can be very difficult to understand.

I can spot Narcissists over 50 very quickly – and I view that as quite good. Their facial expressions, mannerisms, and patterns of speech are astonishingly predictable and consistent to me. But show me a 22 year old, beautiful fashion model with malignant narcissism, and I can easily miss it. She will smile a dazzlingly beautiful, practiced smile at all the right moments, say the right things, and act the right way.

The bottom line is, if you have noticed something moderately wrong, especially in a young Narcissist, you have just out-composed Mozart, in a music composing competition – even though you know nothing of music composition. Even if you only won by a hair, Mozart must have been under one hell of a handicap, and your Narcissist may be hiding one hell of a problem.

I would assume the worst – that I was facing an astonishingly human-like machine, programmed to screw me over at every turn, while trying to look normal, and hide all of this from me. That way, I may be pleasantly surprised to be off in my prediction, but I wouldn’t be caught sleeping.

What do you mean “caught Sleeping?”

Watch any TV show about some person who let another person into their life, and ended up missing or dead. 48 Hours is a good one, as is Dateline. None of the victims saw it coming, or they wouldn’t be dead now. Narcissists operate by different rules – to the point that they are, on one level, baffled by your humanity, and on another, amused by its illogical nature – but it is more than that. They are damaged, in a way that they become panicked if they do not do certain things – regardless of whether those things are logical. So they are driven to hurt others by an envy which will destroy them if they do not yield to its whim. Then they see normal people, not so driven, and tell themselves that they are not damaged, but rather the other people are stupid to not try to advance their own position by screwing others.

In the end, you have a person who thinks they can do anything to you, is driven to screw you by an unrelenting envy and illogical anger at trifles, views you as deserving it due to your inferiority, and in whom all of this coalesces into a psychic force which they cannot ignore, and which they must satisfy.

Now you may not end up dead, but you must understand, it is all a scale. Maybe they contaminate your water bottles with something to try to give you cancer, after you get a big job promotion. Maybe they poison your dog with something to make it sick, so you won’t be so happy all the time. Maybe they just break your stuff, so you have less stuff, and they don’t feel like you are doing so well compared to them. Or maybe they put a bomb under your car, or fill your house with Carbon Monoxide (Two real examples from the TV Shows I spoke about). You can get caught sleeping, because you won’t see just how defective they are, until you realize they are going to kill you, and it is too late to stop them.

If you don’t understand how they operate, and how they think, you will not see these things. You just got cancer – I mean the alternative was someone in your circle gave it to you, and that is ridiculous. Your dog must have picked up a stomach bug somewhere – I mean, the alternative is that someone poisoned your dog, but who would do that? Yeah, Larry broke your stuff, but it must have been an accident – The alternative is, he did it on purpose, but you two are friends/family/whatever – why would he destroy that loyal relationship? Or, all of a sudden, it’s “Holy crap, I’m being killed by this nutjob, and am about to die!”

In short, if you don’t understand how differently they think, you can get caught sleeping, and end up enduring bad circumstances you should not be enduring.

Can you point me to websites or books which will tell me how to deal with one on a regular basis.

Yes, and no. You need to understand the malady better, so that you realize how badly you need to break free from any relationship with a Narcissist.

Good websites on them are this one, this one, and this one.

These sites will explain how weird and destructive these individuals are. But you will not find a lot on coping with them, because there is no dealing with them on a long-term basis.

If we were talking about a child, I would explain it like this. You have a Terminator robot, which looks about 16 years old. It was sent back from the future, and it is programmed to kill you as soon as possible. But it is also programmed to be stealthy and charming, so your wife decided to adopt it as a child, and it is now living in a bedroom in your basement. Is there a way to deal with this Terminator robot on a daily basis, which will make it easier to interact with?

Only in real life, your Terminator is a biological robot designed to make you miserable, destroy any happy moments you may enjoy, and get progressively worse if you try to stop this. (Once in established relationships, Narcissists hate the sight of happy people, and will act out passive/aggressively or aggressively to destroy the happiness. It is what they do. And it will only get worse. The longer you stay around them, the more they think you have to stay, and the less they try to hide what they are, by being nice.)

How do you deal with it? There are three ways. Pacify through appeasement, insult the Narcissist by being angry, or Escape and Evade.

If you pacify through appeasement, the Narcissist will quickly begin to feel omnipotent. They will increasingly lash out, and when appeased, feel ever more powerful themselves, and be ever more contemptuous of you. They aren’t designed to be benign dictators under these circumstances. They are designed to pacify their amygdala in ever-increasing amounts, by reinforcing their own self-perception of their omnipotence. They will do that by grinding you into the ground ever harder, without suffering consequence.

So one day you get angry, and lash back out at them. Suddenly they are nice. How weird. You were nice, and they were mean, now you are mean, and they are nice. It makes no sense.

To the Narcissist, you are a tool, to be manipulated to satisfy them. If you lash out, your utility is in jeopardy, so they appease you. But again, it is the facade appeasing you, not them. Inside, they have made note of what a prick you are for lashing out at them. Though smiling, they have made a note to get back at you later, probably behind your back. Their amygdala will force them to. This is why they are often referred to as “grievance accumulators.” They accumulate grievances deep within the recesses of their minds, until their amygdala is so overloaded by their perceived victimization, that they are forced to take action.

You can’t predict where that point will come, or how it will manifest. Will you notice your 18 year Single Malt tastes funny, and then you get mildly sick for a day or two? Does he accidentally knock over your wife’s favorite vase and break it? Are you suddenly taking cover behind the engine block of your car, as the bullets rain down on your position? Or does the Narcissist never take action, and die an angry, festering POS? You can’t tell ahead of time how it will play out, because they are deep cover operatives, hiding who they truly are.

Should I use the Touching the Raw Amygdala stuff on them?

I advise against this in family situations, just because that battlefield can be so complicated. Narcissists are deep cover operatives, with a lifetime of experience socially manipulating others. Let’s say you lash out, and do a number on him. He may be able to use that to turn the family against you. Worse, let’s say he is your wife’s dad, and she is daddy’s little girl.

His move will almost certainly be to out-group you in the family. He will begin by trying to provoke you at every get together, but in a way he can deny was provocative. He will carefully plan these interactions weeks in advance, preparing a flawless delivery. If you take him down, as you easily could, he will portray the discord as coming from you, and portray himself as the victim of an angry, bitter, mental defective. “Why is he such a mean person to me?,” he will ask everyone innocently.

Over time, he can create a theme, and then give his daughter the ultimatum. Or he can just focus on trying to make her think you are disloyal, cheating etc. Let a girl who is ignorant of a Narcissist’s ways hear from daddy that you were spotted out at lunch with a hot blonde, matching the description of your secretary, sucking your face like a lamprey, and you have problems. If he is proven to be wrong, he can always claim he was mistaken, but if he can’t be proven wrong, now the seed is planted.

For a psychology which grew up manipulating everyone around them and deceiving at every opportunity, this is just normal behavior, and they will be good at it. There are no rules. They could poison themselves and go to the ER, after creating the theme of you as unbalanced and hostile towards them, and then hide a bottle of the poison in your bedroom. Now your wife is wondering. “I mean surely he wouldn’t poison himself. Somebody did it, and you are the only one he has problems with. Oh, my God, you are so sick you poisoned my Dad?

You could end up divorced, stripped from your children, or worse. So open confrontation is a dubious proposition, if family is involved. You won’t know how bad your Narcissist is, until he has shown you by doing something crazy. Until then, you can’t predict how far he will go.

If you want to play the game, you need to shift focus from traumatizing the Narcissist, (or even make every effort not to), and focus on in-grouping yourself, and out-grouping them, below the radar. That means deploying the Heartiste arsenal of cocky-funny, and out-come indifferent about everything, being the guy everybody loves, and occasionally dropping asides and innuendo designed to turn the group against the relative, below the radar, of course. Point out to the Narcissist how much better his other Son-in-Law has it than he does, and send him in that direction. When confrontation opens up, tell everyone behind the scenes it is the Narcissist who is wrong, and in-group the other Son-in-Law, below the radar. Trip his switch with dog whistles to make him rage, while you are always happy-go-lucky with everybody. Make it clear the anger is always from him. Make sure you can’t be accused of infidelity, or child molestation, or any transgression.

But even this is dangerous. You are a normal human being going up against a target who has done nothing but manipulate others every moment of his life, from the earliest social interactions he had. You are an individual who is driven by your amygdala to follow rules, and you are going up against someone who is driven by his amygdala to break rules. You will be disadvantaged.

Een worse, by the very fact that you are playing his game, you are being deceptive, and that could be turned against you if it comes out, especially if your relatives are normal people. Let your wife find out you were bad-mouthing her Daddy behind his back, and fomenting discord, and suddenly you are playing defense again.

It is for this reason, you should either evade and escape, or patiently wait until the Narcissist grows old enough that he can no longer hide what he is, and everyone comes to see the true him. One thing about these characters, when they operate within a group. Eventually everyone in the group notices something is wrong, and one day one comment turns into a flood of note-comparisons, and suddenly everyone sees the Narcissist for what they are. It is very much like the old Sun Tzu adage, “Sit by the river long enough, and the bodies of your enemies will float by.”

But never forget, they are dangerous in many ways if you approach them recklessly, before the crowd has figured them out.

What if my Narcissist is my Boss, Son, Daughter, Father, Neighbor, Employee, etc.

Again, I can’t comment in a way which will help you without knowing the exact scenario – in a way which would really require me to be there. What is the power dynamic? Does the Narcissist need you, or do you need him? How have you known him, and for how long? If you grew up together you will have a specific dynamic to your relationship which was forged in childhood, and which will be unchangeable (Narcissists do not adapt behavior well, preferring to shoehorn everyone into simple cubbyholes of classification). Does your Narcissist associate you with someone he knew in childhood. If you are his wife, but he views his relationship to you in terms of the relationship he had with his mother, then many of his behaviors will only be understandable and predictable in that context. For more See the book Games People Play, by Eric Berne.

When you factor in the variation in Narcissist types, the different degrees of the disorder, the social terrain of the family’s different relationship bonds, the differing amounts of access the Narcissist has to various aspects of your life and property, and the different personalities and social dynamics in your social web, it is too complicated to comment on without a lot of personal information. Even then, if one detail is missed, or your execution of the strategy is off in any way, you can have a real problem.

I can’t emphasize enough, life is so much better without these jackasses in it. There is a cost to being around them. If you don’t accept this, then you have been around your’s so long you have forgotten how great life is. I wouldn’t even be surprised that you are lamenting your low energy levels, and/or reduced health, and the difficulty of realizing all of your potential. Get away, by any means necessary, and never look back. And never, ever, feel you owe the Narcissist anything. They are sub-human, and deserve nothing. Best of all, by doing this you will preserve your relationships with the people you care about, while they gradually figure out who the Narcissist is, and break from him themselves.

I really feel bad for people who have to deal with this. If I can help I will, but I want people to recognize that the Narcissist can be dangerous, especially if they are under 40 years old. If I give you advice, and I miss the smallest detail, that advice could work out badly, and that is something I want to avoid at all costs.

Can you go into more detail?

The above material was expanded upon, into a book. This is a link to an old blog post on the book. The Kindle version of the book is usually made free on the same days as the political book on this site, so if you can’t afford it and can wait, go to http://www.anonymousconservative.com, and sign up to be notified when the political book is made free, and then just download the narcissist book on that day. As of this writing we have used all our free days, so the next free day will probably be around late September, whenever the new Kindle release period begins. If you are liberal, and hate conservatives, you will not like the book due to some political material, so you are probably best served not downloading it. However, it is a good accumulation of insight and tactics which many should find useful.

On Monday Feb 9th, and Tuesday Feb 10th, the book How to Deal with Narcissists will be made free at the Castalia House Bookstore, along with Evo-Psych and the Castalia House Title Altar of Hate. The links to get the books free are as follows:

The link for The Altar of Hate is http://www.castaliahouse.com/downloads/the-altar-of-hate/

The link for The Evolutionary Psychology Behind Politics is http://www.castaliahouse.com/downloads/the-evolutionary-psychology-behind-politics/

The link for How to Deal With Narcissists is http://www.castaliahouse.com/downloads/how-to-deal-with-narcissists/

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Susan
Susan
10 years ago

I was “friends” with people I perceived were genuine, for over ten years, I took their youngest son to school, they supported me throughout a very bad time with two sets of bad neighbours, THEN, the property next door to me became vacant, their middle son and his partner moved in, I was so happy, I had never had a cross word with this son and they have a lovely daughter, I went over to see his parents (the friends?) and was greeted with a torrent of abuse, just because I said how nice it was going to be to have nice neighbours after 5 years of hell, the real ugly narc showed its horns, she, (his mother) said right, Im telling you now, start all that S**T with my son that you have with your other neighbours and you will have ME to deal with! I will buy your house from under you, you are giving him to high expectations to live with, rant rave, threat after threat. I sat there with my mouth open, tried to deal with it, and got nowhere, and promptly left their house, never to return. Things have not been good since, although I have tried my best to ignore them, they continue to try to goad me into any kind of interaction, and just seem to want to start a fight, it has been worse since I decided to cut them out of my life, but when the mother and father live across the road and I live next door to the son, you can imagine its very difficult, they are all textbook narcs as they think they are all clever beautiful and talented, everyone else are stupid, and scumbags! You are right. Cutting of their life sucking supply is the ONLY way to go, all I can hope is that they turn there attention elsewhere, but for the meantime, I am being tormented, and moving is not an option.

Susan
Susan
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
9 years ago

Thank you for replying, Unfortunately things have not improved, as even though they wanted distance from me ( I have given them that) this has made them even more determined to try and wind me up? Now if I make the slightest noise in my house, they mirror whatever they hear and try to do it longer and louder, along with running their clothes dryer (very noisy) until 11.30pm, situated right under my bedroom. (sigh) I have to admit Its really getting to me, making me ill, and I am suffering now with tinnitus, due to the buzzing of this machine constantly. I have taken everything you have said onboard, but what else could I try to do, as giving them what they want seems to have made them angrier? Thanks so much, Susan.

some extra help
some extra help
Reply to  Susan
5 years ago

NArcissists hate 3rd party authority so see what government rules are about noise late at night and get the Govt to intervene, or just mention what the govt can do.. I know this is well after the fact but others might find it usefull. I was at a womans place where her and the defacto had agreed he could come over even though there was a court order order stating he could not. He began argueing with her and it was getting louder and louder.. I simply said IF the neighbours ( 3rd party ) hear this aguement and call the police ( 3rd party authority ). you will get in trouble because you cant alter a court order without going to court . Its happened before painted a picture this happening at macdonalds and the guy got arrested even though the couple agreed to meet. He left

Marianne
Marianne
10 years ago

You mentioned you could spot a narcissist over 50 easily. Could you expand on that statement. I am now out of a marriage with my ex narcissist ( just turned 60) and at the end he did some very scary things to me. It’s been 3 years now and people are beginning to see the real person behind his façade but he still acts like he owns the world.

Curious…….. Everything I’ve read confirms his narcissism but every once in awhile I wonder. Is someone else going to make him happy? Just my heart feels that sometimes, not my head. Crazy to still be thinking about this but I am trying so hard to let go completely.

Hope you can help.

Thank you

Jolly Wombat
Jolly Wombat
Reply to  Marianne
10 years ago

So I was just wondering if when you typed “Their ability to manipulate is enhanced because they see others around them who are so different – people bound by human urges the Narcissist views as patently ridiculous. Highlighted by their perceived anomaly, these “human” urges quickly become an easy means of manipulating their peers” you were in fact perfectly describing yourself? I can only hope the irony wasn’t wasted, to be honest I almost mistook this entire page for satire by the time I got to that line. Your ridiculous attempts to dehumanize half the human race using half baked medical explanations remind me quite a bit of the end of Django unchained, where DiCaprio is explaining that slave’s brains are designed specifically to take orders. It’s amusing to think there will always be fools like you perverting the honesty of science in an effort to lend credibility to your ridiculous political notions. I can only hope we evolve beyond such conceited attempts at slander, some day. You really are quite fucked in the head.

Pete
Pete
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

well said.

Laura Noble
Laura Noble
Reply to  Pete
10 years ago

I love you, Anonymous Conservative….Brilliantly expressed…

Cynthia
Cynthia
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

Outstanding information eloquently versed. I love you too, Anonymous Conservative.

sandrajean
sandrajean
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

I am late getting here and have been reading online info for weeks as I just left the N boyfriend, This Is The Best Information I Have Read. Thank you so much for being so candid. Unless one has experienced the games and hurt from a Narc, there is no way to understand it. Period.
Even a Narcissist cannot understand (Jolly Wombat) tee hee hee. Good Job Anonymous Conservative!

Anonymous In-Law
Anonymous In-Law
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
9 years ago

My initial thought in reading Jolly Wombat’s comment was that there was a know-it-all tone complete with the big words and arrogance you find in many narcissists.

Great job calling him/her out.

Anonymous
Anonymous
Reply to  Anonymous In-Law
8 years ago

I really loved your article and even this reply until it diverted into the crap about liberals wanting to cull conservatives. I am a liberal (granted a moderate one) and I neither feel nor think such a thing. I think both liberal and conservative modalities (diversity) is absolutely necessary for our survival as a species.
Anyway, thank you so much for this article! I married into a family with two Narcs and it has been hell. This is very helpful information!

Lorento
Lorento
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
8 years ago

What you are stating is not political conservatism but pure paranoïd deceiving fascism.
It’s the kind of thinking a person like Hitler had.
Narcissism in it’s most evil form. You state that being ‘liberal’, what (in America) means being social, being human, is a brain-disorder. In your mind being a social human being, which is the natural state of humans, is a ‘proven’ biological, genetical disfunction comparable to narcissism.
It is directly comparable to what Hitler stated about all those groups he regarded as ‘untermenschen’.
Is it allready ringing through to your own distorted mind? I guess you adore a man like Hitler but won’t ever admit it while it’s not political correct yet.
But believe me the ‘liberals’ you state are not brave enough to take up the narcissists and psychopaths in this world have done this before and conquered them over and over again in the end.
And they will do it again. For social human beings are the fast majority of humanity.
It’s the normal human state of being. Not you or your fellow ‘conservatives’ with your paranoïd, narcissistic, fascist mindset.

Laurie
Laurie
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
6 years ago

Your writing on narcissism is spot on. I unfortunately have 20 years of direct experience with my narc ex-husband and extended family, kind of like a coven of narcs. As far as political alignment approximately half identified as liberals, and half identified as conservatives. The liberal narcs were identifiable as saying the right, politically correct stuff and expecting everyone to serve them. The conservative narcs demanded to be served and actively sought to destroy their slaves. The liberal ones were chilling with their hypocrisy, but the conservative ones were deadly. I suggest you free your mind and revisit the notion that narcs come in all flavors.

Texas Arcane
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
3 months ago

Hilarious all you ever mentioned was the word “Narcissist” and this guy assumed you meant Left-Wing. Weird that. It was all insults, no semantic content. It’s almost like the guy is some sort of Narcissist or something. 🙂

Anonymous
Anonymous
Reply to  Marianne
8 years ago

You were not given the ability to get back on your feet in order to run back to what knocked you down. Stay strong, there are better days ahead.

christine
christine
10 years ago

You have no idea how right you are. Great article. I was unfortunate enough to marry and divorce one. I had children with him and he is now digging up the divorce. The great thing about throwing a bag full of shit at a ceiling fan is usually some of it falls on the person throwing it. My personal advice, attack their reasoning. Make your faults known publicly and they will quickly run out of gas. Know why you did things the way you did so you are not putting on the “uh…I don’t know” face in court or social situations. If you have to talk to one face to face or on the phone, have someone there with you or be on three way. Its harder for them to treat you like crap when they are being held accountable in real time. Do not respond to any allegation or comment they make with excuses, its not their place to invade your life. Instead appear shocked that they would even say such things and leave immediately. Let them know its their fault for leaving the conversation and you are not discussing it with them. Be ready to leave them at all times. Do not get stuck with one. The more they know about you the more they can destroy you. What you two talk about may seem innocent and basic but to them they are always gathering evidence to damn you later. Do not do favors for them. Do not overly praise their efforts. Show little emotion. Screw it…just run! Run for the hills.

Nana
Nana
Reply to  christine
10 years ago

OMG I just wish I knew all of this before. How on earth this type of people does even exist? But I’m happy because I couldn’t understand the X and father of my daughter life inconsistencies and instability as he thinks something, says something, and than does something completely different. Not mentioning the falseness, all smiley in front, and backstabbing as soon as you left. Oh and also the fake altruism, it’s all about how people perceive them, they are 2 different people, behind closed doors (where they can treat you like crap) and in front of everyone (where you are the princess of the world).
I think the best way for to deal with them, is to bring the whole puzzle pieces together and throw an ultimate Shame Strategy so everyone know the actual person, not what they try to pretend to be.

immafighter4sure
Reply to  christine
7 years ago

You put that very well. It’s in my nature to help others but my N never appreciates anything. And since I’m not out to impress him I just find I’m too busy for him. Even an act of kindness on my part to him gets twisted and eventually thrown back in my face as something I did wrong to him. So FU_K IT. I’m finding now I don’t need pepto bismo every day

C
C
10 years ago

I Need Help in the worst possible way. You see I am the victim of a Narc. she is my Aunt , My Motheres sister. I am only 5 years younger so I grew up with her. I Really believed we were very close..we even double dated together. I have no memories of childhood or any time in my life she was not in . She is Now 65 and 5 years ago she got a divorce and she has turned against me so much I can not describe it. I was warned years ago but always said the same thing Oh that just her way. Now she has so much hate so much venom against me and anyone I associate with. She even made passes at my husband and now is working to discredit both of us. not only in the family but also our church and any one she thinks may know us even remotely. She got so devilish with me she was insulting me to my face, but usually with no witnesses. I finally Had to change my phone number and the locks on my doors, because she had a key to them.
Now that’s really made her mad and she is so full of hate towards us it’s plain scary.
I love this woman, can’t help it. She has always been in my life. Now all the people that’s ever been in my life , she is convincing them I am the Bad one, with outlandish Lies .

We have a very Large extended family she is around all the time. now it’s so bad I can,t go around most of them because they are believing this. Why ? I have no Idea…They won’t even ask me for my side. I did not want to go and start telling my side because I thought it was wrong and now it’s just too late. they seemed to have fallen under her spell or something.

I can’t seem to rest or sleep , my mind is in so much turmoil . she has ruined us and my whole world it seems and there is nothing I can do. I have not seen or spoken with her for 10 months, we were talking nearly very day before she made the last pass at my husband . there were Three and I just had to do what I have done.
Is there anything at all I can do?

Molly
Molly
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

I cannot believe how utterly awesome, informative and wise this piece is! You know Narcisists through and through! I feel like I could tell you my specific situation and you would know exactly how to deal with it. In my case – my family and friendship circle is Full of them. They love me as I seem to be the type they thrive on in order to build up their power & ego. I know what you mean about how the narcissists are eventually flushed out when they get older. It’s happening! And as I’m researching & noticing criteria, I am distancing myself and putting in boundaries and they hate me for it- and use social rejection and isolation to try to kill my identity & smear my character- yet they have needed me. You are right… They ARE very dangerous and seek to destroy- they use social groups, subtle nasty remarks laced with smiles and “I knew you wouldn’t

Thankyou for sharing such valuable information about these bastards that need to all be deported to an island and just turn on each other until their species is completely wiped out for good!

sandmaninverted
sandmaninverted
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
9 years ago

I fell asleep on the couch the night before the breakup of a 14 month relationship with an ex girlfriend narc (a few clicks over 40 and cracking) and woke to her standing over me with both hands covering my mouth and nose in a suffocation attempt. She had been working the new sucker for a few months and asked me earlier to “disappear.” I was catching on by then but wasn’t giving in because I’m mildly sadistic and I have to admit, although a real and present danger to my health (all), it was entertaining. The best advice is to cut and run. Actually if you know someone you’d like to obliterate, you can turn them on to your narc and save yourself from being stalked.
I wouldn’t be too horribly awful if they didn’t have to get violent and commit felonies an homicide. Can’t we just all get along? Very helpful article.

Kim
Kim
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

I love this! I am getting pretty good at dealing with the Narcissits in my life after 20 years, but I needed this refresher. Disengage!

karen
karen
10 years ago

thank you x all of the above makes sense to me after 21 years and a daughter with problems,

C
C
10 years ago

Thank you so much for taking time to respond with such honesty. I appreciate it very much. I have separated myself from this Narc. But am suffering for it. family Members seem to be believing her and of course feel so sorry for her. I feel sorry for her, but not that way..I feel sorry that anyone has to live in such a terrible state.
I want to know , since she has moved closer to the bulk of family, and seems to be starting some of this behavior with another relative, Could she be dangerous? I mean in the Physicial sense? could She really do bodily Harm?
thank you again This is eye opening!

Texas Arcane
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
3 months ago

She always told me that if I was a better person, she would love me back someday. She said that maybe when I was richer and famous she might care about me. She told me she would find me desirable when I lost some weight. (I was built like Arnold Schwarzenegger when we met, but she began to force feed me cheesecake and chocolate within ten minutes of meeting me so she could make sure no other women took me away)
After a short while she convinced me I was unlovable and deserved to keep working to support her but should never expect anybody to care about me.
When I left for Australia I was steroid free 240 pounds, 8% body fat and could run 5 minute miles back to back. Thirty years later when I came home I was 350 and could hardly walk across the tarmac from the plane. I felt like I had already died. My brain was fried and I went from hyperfocus power as late as 54 to barely remembering who, what and where I was most of the time. I don’t mean to sound arrogant but I don’t think the average man could have possibly survived that dose of kryptonite every single day for thirty years. It would likely kill most men within a year of marriage or they’d simply step out and never return again. I was a big believer in no-divorce, one wife a lifetime, no adultery, no commandment breaking.
Down to 270 now but still have a long ways to go. Easier at 27 to maintain it but pretty hard at 60.
My wife did the exact same thing with all our dogs over the years. Loved them as puppies when they were glamorous, despised them and wouldn’t touch them when they were old and blind. I loved those dogs more than when we had gotten them when they finally passed away. I used to cradle the blind one in my eyes and sing to her for hours and she would listen. My wife would interrupt to tell me she wanted that foul smelling creature out of the house.
All narcissists are monsters and murderers too … they are just waiting for opportunity. My wife began to cook for me again near the end but first she had my life insurance increased. Then she served me nothing but fried food in huge stacks. I was so far gone at that point I used to eat it and hope it would set me free.

EricTheAwful
EricTheAwful
Reply to  Texas Arcane
3 months ago

Sounds very similar to my ex-wife. I only had to do it for 12 years, and it took years to get past all the gaslighting.

Judy
Judy
10 years ago

Thanks so much for the insight – I just spent a few days away from home visiting my family and I am all hurt, confused and trying to understand what part of what is happening is my fault – what sin is mine to confess. It as always been like this when I visit my family. But three years ago my sister went too far – she really hurt me – I felt it through my heart and my gut and I have to say that it is not even something I can repeat it is that ugly. Of course she has done this over the years and I have done my best to protect myself – up until then, as she is a little sister, and I had always forgiven her – I need to add here that never did she ever ask for forgiveness – it is as if she feels she has lisence to discredite, undermine, and spin negativity with even the brightess of light. Since the last major incident, three years ago, I have been determined to keep her out of my life – I say as little as possible to her as I can about my life. Now I have our other sister and our mom determined to have me make peace with her. I have become the problem, apparently, as our family no longer has the illusion of a big happy family. I am not angry with her, I forgave her but I feel I am the fool if I keep putting myself in harms way – I am doing my best to keep her away to protect myself from further pain. I have tried all of the other strategies to deal with her – nothing works – somewhere along the line she started being in competition with me – a game she is playing by herself. Thank you again, I have a better understanding of what is happening and I am more sure than ever that what I feel I need to do is the right thing. Stay away from her.

Just Another Anon
Just Another Anon
Reply to  Judy
8 years ago

As a person who just discovered this blog today, I just wanted to say thank you, Judy, for sharing your story about your younger family member. It just helped me (as did the other stories from other people both here and elsewhere, online) to read other people’s experiences, which could have easily been my own. It’s very healthful to know that other people are experiencing the exact same monster experiences (as these “people” ARE TRULY monsters!), and are or were suffering from the same evil tactics. It helps, I guess, by validating your experiences because, even though I’ve never shared my story–at least it feels good (temporarily) to know that, somewhere, there would be a group of people who’d know that I wasn’t “crazy” or “the problem,” to quote you (when you said, “I have become the problem,” above).

Thanks, I know it’s hard to convey things in words, on the web, but I hope that I can convey to you now, just how sincere, and grateful I am that you and others have shared your personal experiences, and ESPECIALLY for this blogger for writing this piece so beautifully (the Mozart metaphor comes to mind).

Anyway, I’m sorry for your loss (your other family), but, regardless of what the future entails (whether they’ll treat you as the person you are, vs. the person you’ve been spuriously made out to APPEAR to be, in the end, “all things will be revealed.” Personally, by the time the Lord Jesus Christ comes back and reveals all things that have been done in secret, I don’t think it’ll matter to the victims by then, BUT I could be wrong, either way, OF course you are doing the right thing (by staying away from her)! She is a poison, a toxic, hazardous agent, and you need to not only reduce, but cease from being exposed to said poison, toxin, hazardous agent…even if that means losing family for now (and maybe forever–my personal case–but that I don’t care about–I have memories of fond things and fond times with those that I’ve lost, and they sustain me quite well. It just isn’t fun to look into someone’s eyes and see that…because of lies…their countenance has changed toward you. I do NOT want to look into the eyes, nor speak into the ears of people who I KNOW have been manipulated into believing that I am crazy. The good thing I try to remember is that God, His Son–Jesus Christ, and His Holy Spirit–The Holy Ghost are witnesses to EVERYTHING, not only the lies told aloud, but to the evil done in the heart, and the wicked schemes that are spawned out of it. I try to remember this, and I try to thank God for witnessing the evil that is about to be done to me, the evils that were just done to me, and the evils that are being done to me at the time of the attacks by the devilish witches and dogs in my own family–two of which are on my own birth certificate.

I don’t mean to insult dogs, but since that IS in the dictionary as a term denoting “contemptible people,” shoes…fit, so yeah. Also, I feel awkward about possibly not honoring the individuals on my birth certificate, but I just wanted to state the truth…. Perhaps I should have stated it in a classier, holier-minded way, but I don’t have the desire to edit it. I have had things done to me that I don’t want to mention either–although somethings have been mentioned by the author of this blog already, in part–like the food thing (only I would become VIOLENTLY ILL–I mean VERY VIOLENTLY ILL–to the point where my body had so many involuntary convulsions–if that’s the proper term for it–other times it was just a laxative type drug by one relative and his friend, other times it was just an item that wasn’t “bad”–but was known to make me very nauseous and sick, now the particular wicked witch that I live under puts sodium in my food and things that contain sodium (chicken broth, canned beans–because I cook my own dried beans), and once it seemed something with hormones in it (like a meat-based broth, or some medicines (like Claritin/loratadine, IDK), I don’t know what, exactly–but regardless, it’s funny, she does the sodium thing to my food because she knows my body can NOT handle sodium very well AT ALL, and she knows that sodium before my lady’s time (of the month) will cause me to go through pain, and have a longer recovery time. She (along with the other monster on my birth certificate) has even stolen food, toilet tissue, ink pens, notebook paper, etc., sounds like no big deal. The problem is, when you’re not wealthy, your resources are all the more precious in the sense that, no matter how seemingly insignificant to others–you have a terrible time being able to replace them–as you can only allocate but so much money to so many places.

I empathize with Susan above, who cannot move, as at the exact second, neither can I. We all may hide things that we cannot share–but sometimes things that are possible for others, are impossible for the ones that heartfelt advice is given to.

I have hope though, because of something that Anonymous Conservative (A.C.) said to another woman on here who said her hair was falling out and that she wanted to “check out,” but [thankfully!!!] would not do so because she has a responsibility to her kids.

What A.C. said to that woman prompted me to want to try again with something that has been brutally, deliberately, and unbelievably sabotaged by my familial NARCs in the past so many times. I don’t want to do the wrong thing and end up with yet MORE regret–but–but nevertheless–though A.C. was talking to someone else–it helped me to FEEL empowered again, which is a rare thing that, of late, has been coming more frequently. I am starting to feel empowered through a particular Holy Bible verse and it’s surrounding verses that makes me feel like I am not necessarily on the “wrong path” if you will, and quite possibly, MAYBE God will help me and be the bridge that I need to reach the other side. I could be wrong, but either way, it’s a wonderful thing to feel not alone, empowered, and to be emboldened to try again that which you had lost hope in/on.

Whatever plan of action I take this weekend, I am glad because of A.C.’s words in saying–no matter how long it takes–get OUT! Stick to the plan of action to get AWAY from the toxic, noxious, persons that are killing you and inspiring you to give up and finish the job for them!

P.S. I would NEVER kill myself (though I tried as a child–same people that inspire the desire as an adult–I now know that if I take my own life–no matter HOW bad it is, and no matter HOW great a witness God is to what has been and is being done to me–I will have a final act of murder, an act which I could never repent from because…once you commit suicide–that’s it–your life is over, and you have no more options to get into Heaven, to get forgiveness because we are judged–as far as I TRULY believe based on what we did in life as we lived it–once we’re dead–it’s like we just turned in our final exam–pencils are down, and what you have on that paper is what you’re going to be judged on.

I hope that this comment is posted (if God deems it healthful to someone–He’ll get the message out), but if it’s not posted, at the very least, I’m grateful for being able to have a voice, and to speak–which is not something that I can do when I’ve been silenced by the fear of not being believed, and even worse–of being believed and being blamed for what was done to me by others (which has happened before–at least, though, that was by a person who was/is an abuser, a liar, and an wicked-doer herself–though at the time I thought she was a genuine, or at least a kind of good, or at least a person worthy of honor and respect).

-Thanks for reading and if not posted, thanks AnonConse for allowing the Anonymous posting option on your blog/website, and thanks, as well, for posting this article–it was VERY much something that I found a great deal of solace in (both your post, and in the few stories I have read from others). Thanks for that, sincerely, Just Another Anon.

Anonymous
Anonymous
10 years ago

You mentioned… If I am involved with a narcissist, the best option is to evade and never look back. What if this person (the N) is the father of my child? It’s not so easy to escape… And I DO NOT want to “appease” him or show anger. What can I do? Do you have info on where I can seek help? We were never married, nor is there a parenting plan. In my state, him and I have equal rights right now. I’m lucky that he is gone in another
State for the next year for career purposes, and my child will have a normal life with me until then (she isn’t even a year old yet)…. But I’m so fearful for what’s to come in the future. He is smart, handsome, and capable.. only 26 years old and has the world fooled.. aside from me i think. i dont want to start pointing fingers now, then I look like the crazy one… He hasn’t really made a scene or made himself known to anyone… But I know. I lived with him for almost 3 years… I just know.. But I have no proof so I can’t say or do anything. I feel very stuck. Any advice or any source that I can get in touch with would help tremendously.

-jc

Nana
Nana
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

I can so much relate here because I’m in the same situation, the narcissist is my daughter’s father, I went through horrible, inhuman situations, but still tried to keep a peaceful relationship, but the nicer I was the worst he was, he would literally seat on top of my head and never appreciate anything, I think too him I was stupid by being nice, so I than implemented the Avoid him strategy but still every now and then he will reappear and tell me how bad I’m, and that i’ve deprived him from seeing his daughter, yes he wants to see her but doesn’t pay a penny toward her while his yearly income is about £500 000 and he pays a monthly mortgage of 3600£/m. I took him through CSA (Child Support Agency) and than to my surprise his official income is 4000£/m!!!! an absolute joke, he always have a way to be calculative, and try to make you feel in a weak position. He would have a non sense logic, or shall I say a logic of his own. anyway now since i know I can’t escape, I need to face him, and as T.Roosevelt said, “The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly.”, therefore I’ve put in place a BANG strategy that will let him face his responsibility or be ashamed the whole of his life as I’ll put him nude in public by highlighting his inconsistencies, falseness, and destructive attitude all backed up with written evidence so he has no way out, no excuse, no possibility to call me a liar!!! He will have to face his acts.

D
D
10 years ago

This is by far the best article I have read on dealing with a narcissist. I have an unusual situation which I will try to explain briefly. My narc is my former professor. He is in his 50s…but I am in my 40s, and we hit it off SO WELL in the beginning…and that was only when I took his online courses. We had occassion to meet in person at an event…and there was instant chemistry — I honestly “felt” the spark. We are both married — he for over 30 years…me for over 20 years…and I have 7 children. Anyway…he initiated an email “relationship” – ? – with me over time. Eventually he offered me a directed study (he is a history prof, and I am majoring in history, which was one of the reasons we “clicked”). After I took an entire year’s worth of his online courses, I signed up for his on campus class (he only teaches one..and at that, he co-teaches with a female prof who has a very bold and independent personality), and during that semester, the emails back and forth numbered in the hundreds, and at all hours of the day and night. They were long, and honestly, they were kind and supportive and intelligent, and for the most part they were on-topic (history and world cultures related), but occassionally they would divert to personal issues, but nothing that was inappropriate. The bottom line: I fell in love with this guy. I used to hear from other profs, “Wow – D. really likes you…” My daughter was on the same campus as I and knew him, and whenever he saw her on campus, he would rave about me, my daughter would come home telling me…she thought it was strange.

He had offered the directed study to me a year in advance…now that I think about it, he was probably securing narc. supply for the future. But anyway, when the time came for the directed study, he completely sabotaged it. He continually switched the track of the study (it was on the Middle East…a zillion different directions and a very broad topic), and at this point, the emails STOPPED almost cold. He would not disucss anything with me via email related to the study at all, and almost never responded to any email, or if he did, it was unrelated to the question and had no relevance to the course. Before the study, though, I honestly thought he was my best friend. I was coming out of a difficult life circumstance, which he knew about, and was extremely supportive. Then the communication stopped. Then, at the end of the semester, he almost seemed to be…acting more “normal”? After I graduated – just a couple weeks ago, he sent me a a few long emails, just like “before”. But here is the clincher. I am receiving a scholarship at a ceremony next Friday. He will be there — he nominated me for the scholarship along with a group of other people (he is the director of the honors program at the college) in the honors program, and I am sure they are all women. I am honestly afraid to go to this ceremony. It has only been in the past couple of weeks, through a lot of research and reading, that I have determined he is narcissist, probably a cerebral narcissist, and I am dreading interacting with him at this upcoming event. He has never been outwardly mean…of course, who could accuse him of being mean after offering me a directed study and recommending me for a scholarship?? He also wrote me a recommendation for another scholarship I received earlier in the year, and came to that ceremony, where I was subjected to the “narcissist stare” while receiving my award up at the podium. I have moved on (this was a community college) to a local university, where he is also an adjunct professor…and out of the blue the other day, he emailed me – very short – just to “keep in touch”– from his home email address to my new email address at my new university.

I’m relaying all this because although I have been going to a therapist, she seems unaccquainted with how dangerous and how addictive this guy is/can be, and I really don’t know how to proceed from here. He displays all the classic signs, the over-valuation, the devaluation, the shunning, the intermittent reinforcement, the mixed messages…(whenever he used to mention his wife in email or in conversation was when I also felt that he was the most attracted to me, or trying to make me attracted to him, as weird as that sounds…though “attracted” is a relevant term with a narc.).

Your thoughts and advice welcome, please! I don’t know how to break free of him, and have noticed that a few other profs (all female) who I had been close to at the community college now have nothing to do with me…and am afraid for my future at my new school, where he has access to my current profs.

Thanks….
“D”

D
D
10 years ago

One more thing! I had thought of going to the administration with all of his emails…I wasn’t sure if he would give me a good grade for my directed study (he did…an A.). But — he just got a national award for being an engaged professor. No one will believe me…I feel like I am the only one who has experienced him this way. Most people don’t have him for 4 consecutive semesters…only 1 or 2. Is it possible for someone to be a “situational narcissist”?? I have really felt like I am losing my mind, and he takes over my thoughts almost completely.

Bea
Bea
10 years ago

Thank you, your article is very insightful, very real and incisive.
I really look forward to your advice on a very difficult personal situation:

For the last few years I have been in a troubled marriage. The serious problems started when my husband’s parents got involved in our relationship. After lots of reading, I hv no doubt at all that my father-in-law is a very serious case of NPD and my husband seems to be his co-dependent. My father-in-law was apparently not happy with our marriage, mainly since I belong to a different community,  and the son committed to me without their approval. Further I became a serious threat to him because i could see thru his manipulative pressure tactics and protested to my fiance/husband against his father’s obsession to control my life and our relationship (unlike many family members who are tolerating his tyranny silently being dependent on him). Ever since he got involved, my father-in-law has left no stone unturned in creating conflicts and misunderstandings between me and my husband, as well as him and my family. My husband shockingly seems hypnotised by his parents – he seems under a SPELL. Even though he knows I hv been trying my best to keep peace, he becomes devilish under their influence and emotional blackmail — he ridiculously blames me, insults me and my family, and pressurises me in various ways to make me fall in line with his parents’ wishes. Most of the time,  I am left proving my innocence to false accusations made at me. I have been patient with him and hv been trying to maintain peace. When I point out the two-faced manipulations of his parents, he refuses to accept them and rationalises their behaviour as justified in some way. Moreover,  he becomes furious and aggressive towards me. Unfortunately his father seems to be doing well professionally (no surprise, knowing his eerie power to control people, changing colours like a chameleon) — his success makes his son and family feel even more enthralled by him, allowing him to act even more dictatorially. His wife totally tows his line.

His parents influence seems increasing and I am scared because I sometimes see my husband mirroring his father’s feudal mindset and manipulating/controlling tactics. In the last year, i am noticing that his shameless behaviour is increasing and he is acting opportunistically like his father, being nice to me when he wants something done, and then reverting to his tantrums when his purpose is fulfilled. But at other times, he behaves very lovingly with me and pleads and cries asking me to stay with him. Every time i soften and get taken in…..and carry on with the marriage.But he treats me like a doormat when influenced by his parents, including repeated divorce threats and turning me out of the house. Later he comes and apologises profusely and emotionally, but reverts to misbehaviour within a few hours/days/weeks……this has been going on for over 3 years, and I hv now lost all trust in his assurances. I wonder whether he will improve…. 

For over 2 years, I and my family maintained interaction with his parents and tried our best to bring harmony in relations. But my father-in-law used the interactions to misbehave with or ridicule us, throw false blames, or throw temper tantrums to frighten me and make me fall in line with his dictat. What is most frustrating is that by acting sweetly, showing false concern in front of others and giving me gifts on some occasions, he has convinced his son and many people around that he is actually very loving and concerned abt me,  while I am the non-flexible beast. He tries to impress people in our circle with his fake behaviour and flattery, while they spread lies about me and my family. In the process, he projects himself as a demi-God oozing with kindness and love, who is so ‘stressed’ because of a ‘bad’ daughter-in-law. I am unable to clarify the truth to people for fear of my husband — if he got to know that I was talking to ppl about his parents. 

After abt 2.5 yrs, communication between me and my parents-in-law broke down after a conflict. But I think soon they repented it because they no longer had the chance to manipulate me. Then they started pressurising my husband to make me interact/ meet them again, which I refused — I couldn’t spend the rest of my life fighting a narcissist’s manipulations, especially when I had realised that I couldnt trust my husband to stand by me. My husband has now been driving me and my family mad, insisting that I resume interaction with his parents otherwise he would continue to aggress against me and my family. He has been throwing tantrums and making absurd,  hurtful and abusive allegations.

Things are turning more and more ugly and I am now reaching the end of patience since my husband is not showing any signs of improvement. Moreover, lately he has broken off communication with me. Also, i must mention that my husband has also been suffering from stress/ anxiety disorder and has been on anti-depressants for 4 years (since before our relationship problems started) — but he blames me for his bad health and supposedly suicidal thoughts. He refuses to seek CBT which has been advised to him for his stress issues…..I think he is afraid that the counsellor might point out to him the same harsh reality abt his parents and himself that he wants to stay blind to.

Q.1) I would really appreciate your view on this situation.
Especially: my husband seemed like a simple, very emotional and caring person. It’s difficult to accept his untrustworthy insensitive aggressive behaviour. Do you think he could be bad and unworthy of carrying on with, or is he just spellbound by his parents??

Q.2) With your experience, do you think there is any hope for our marriage?  (I am afraid to carry on and hv children, as that would make life far more complicated) Will my husband ever change and if he does, could there be a relapse after 1-2 yrs, like after we hv children? ?

Q.3) My husband acts like a  codependent with his father. But is it possible for a codependent to behave like a narcissist with other people (e.g. with me) under pressure?

Q.4) Even if my husband does apologise and plead me to come back to him, should I resume interaction with his parents? (I’m afraid I’ll land myself in quicksand again and their next blow could be dreadful and fatal).

Please help! 🙁 🙁

Bea
Bea
10 years ago

Sorry, I just want to add that my husband has told me several times in the past that his parents are no.1 for him and hv stood by him always (how ironical :-/) and that I shouldn’t even dream to take their place. Also all his financial matters are controlled by his father, and my husband is really happy abt it. He thinks his father is a demi-God and everything he does is right. He also shares stuff abt my life with them. Bottomline: I see NO SIGNS at all of him even doubting his parents’ intentions or character. Everything is justified, even their lying.

I really await your advice 🙁 I and my family has been going thru a lot of misery. The marriage is on the rocks now, and something concrete may happen in the next few weeks. So this is an extremely crucial time. Sometimes, I cant help but wonder whether I will let my narc father-in-law win, if we go ahead with divorce 🙁

James D
James D
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
8 years ago

I know it’s been two years; I hope this woman comes back with an update to add to the literature. Here is my take…

My first thought in reading this is that her husband is also a Narcissist. However, from the limited data, some boxes are left unchecked. The husband’s behavior actually reminds me more of a male Borderline. Recall that the central emotional force for Borderlines is fear of abandonment by their close people. Her husband obviously has his Narcissist father at the top of the “close persons” list. Narcissists and Borderllines, in male-female relationships, are quite often soul mates. I don’t know the dynamic of a father-son Narcissist-Borderline relationship, but I’m sure it would involve an extensive degree of enmeshment.

I don’t see any way this woman can have an enjoyable life while married to this man; it will always be distressing and psychologically battering, on two fronts. (Absent data on the mother in law, possibly 3 fronts). If she were to have children with him, a divorce at some point is guaranteed, e.g., when either the Narcissist or (possible) Borderline starts in with very inappropriate or plain evil behavior with the children. The divorce is guaranteed to be a “High Conflict” divorce, with his parents documenting all her perceived sins in excruciating detail, and quite possibly even setting her up with false allegations (e.g., drugs, child abuse) that could lead to loss of visitation or even jail. They will scheme and set her up like jackals ripping the flesh of a wounded animal.

In my opinion, her only hope of finding happiness, and not being trapped in a life of daily torment, is to leave this marriage, and the sooner, the better. I know how hard it is at first, because 20% of the time, things are really, really good, making us think and hope things are turning the corner. It’s just how they keep us hooked; it’s a mask. Run.

To the original poster, try counseling if you must; and absolutelly with someone experienced in NPD/BPD/Cluster B personality disorders; otherwise, Narcissists and Borderlines excel at fooling counselors and convincing them YOU are the one with all the issues and they are the normal ones, the victim of your craziness. I can’t blame you for trying, to see if it can be made to work.

Do end the relationship intelligently, on the earliest possible orderly timetable of YOUR making; don’t telegraph your intentions way ahead of time and allow them time to plan how to screw you over. These sick people are so used to being the bullies, screwing over helpless, beaten-down, immobilized normal people, that it totally throws them off when their intended victim brings the fight to them and puts them on the defensive. I am saying this in a family court context. Make sure YOU file for divorce first, and without prior warning. Get a very, very good attorney to work with you and draw up the initial papers.

My qualifications: Formerly engaged to a Borderline Psychopath woman, barely survived, got her out of my life with a restraining order days before she could hatch her plan of false rape allegations against me, so when they came, they were treated as retaliatory sour grapes; Also, 10 years of dating women with 30 years of time with Narcissist ex’s and hearing the resulting horror stories; 35 years of a wicked stepmother (Borderline); and an ex-wife who hired a Narcissist Psychopath attorney and got my ex to spend $50K attacking me while i had to spend $40K defending myself just to stay involved in the lives of our 3 awesome children.

greg
greg
10 years ago

This article is spot on. I’m sole caretaker of my late 80’s father and he’s getting more and more ugly by the day. I’ll be getting away soon. In the meantime I just give him his way in everything (what to cook, watching TV, whatever). I sometimes question myself, but seeing articles like this helps me to see that it’s not my problem, but his. He does try to make me the bad guy at every turn, but I simply don’t care anymore. Before I realized what I was dealing with I made a subconscious attempt at suicide. Thankfully I’m now fully aware of his behavior and have no expectations of any changes. Truly he is a P.O.S. and I hope to be able to write a book about all that I’ve been through. I’ve read the “Gulag Archipelago” and the similarities are very apparent, with the exception that the inmates have friends among themselves. As he is my father I have no ill will toward him, but I refuse to feel guilty about leaving him to his own devices. Even though it’ll probably lead to his death, due to his inability to deal with all of life’s requirements (for instance, he refuses to use a cane even though he has fallen more times than I can count). How he’ll cope after I’m gone I have no idea. His older brother is also a narcissist and has driven off his children also. So I’m looking forward to getting out of here.

Amanda
10 years ago

Hi, I was hoping someone could give me some advice on how to deal with a narcissist who is my future husbands child’s mother. They just recently went through a parenting plan and she lied and manipulated the whole situation in court that they got 50/50 custody even though if she didn’t know how to talk and screw people over in a social setting she wouldn’t have gotten more than every other weekend. Anyways, we have to deal with her every week and the things she says that are completely contradicting of herself and so hypocritical it is extremely hard when having to respond to not freak out! I have done it before and it is completely pointless. I just need advice on what to say back, if anything at all, and how to deal with my frustrations after because she gets me so worked up. Please somebody help! :/

Bby
Bby
10 years ago

Wow, I can’t believe what I am reading here!!! I have a friend that was in a relationship for many years (5 of which were married) and they are in the midst of a very NASTY divorce. She is the poster child for narcisism, but my friend is only now coming to understand that his soon to be ex-wife is a narcisist. She comes from a wealthy family (all of which are narcisists) who hold high status around the world and married my friend who had a few bucks of his own. For the first year, things were “great”, the remainder, very abusive, both mentally and physically. Their divorce is now going into the first year and some things that he is starting to find about her are very scary to say the least. He is now understanding the whole “spoiled little girl” behaviour. But is there some kind of sexual deviation that goes along with being a narcisist? This woman has crossed many boundaries, not only to live out her crazy sexual fantasies, but to actually video tape them. These actions would be considered those of a sexual predator, manipulating both humans and NON-humans. Now my friend just wants all the madness to stop and has been willing to walk away from the divorce with a very scad amount of what their worth is, but on the other hand wants to expose this person for what she is…..I’m with him on the other hand, expose her and put her behind bars where she belongs; and take that family status and they can shove it where the sun don’t shine. What do you think the odds are of that happening lol?? But it’s worth a try!!!!

Amy
Amy
10 years ago

Thanks for the article.

I am in the same situation like many others and i have decided to move on in my life leaving my narc husband behind.
For those who are in such situation, trust the malignant ones are untreatable. Its like stage 4 cancer..you have to remove that part of your body to make you healthy and functional.

Amy
Amy
10 years ago

Hi

I need some help. I have been with a narc husband for the past 9 months and now it seems to be over. Reading your’s and many other post made me realize that i was dealing with a malignant case. My self esteem is completely gone and i do feel useless many times. I thank God to bless me with the most supportive parents and friends and are my constant source of courage. I belong to a society where there is a stigma associated with divorce.
I can deal with all the issues but i feel somehow i am still emotionally attached to my husband. I do need some help on this . I know this will go with time but i do want to stand strong and have ‘ care less’ attitude.
Never realized that dealing with narc can have such deterimental effect on me.
I strongly urge those who are dealing with narcs to go away and be on their own.

Amy
Amy
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

Pertaining to your replies earlier. I would like my husband to be exposed. He has ruined my life but i dont want anyone else to suffer. Atleast that i could try to do on my part. I will be dealing with divorce issues in the future and i know my life is gonna be hell. These days he is on my ignore list which is bothering him as he is trying to hack my emails and facebook accounts. He isnt contacting me directly but he is using whatever he could do to know the latest in my life. His sympathy seeking game has started as he is telling everyone that what a saint he has been and his wife was so ungrateful.
Please tell me how to protect myself yet deal with him in a way that doesnt affect me anymore mentally and physically?

Thanks

Julie L***********
Julie L***********
10 years ago

In light of the fact that my narcissistic sister is hosting a family reunion, I have been bolstering my “no contact” rule by reading excellent post such as these. The pressure I am receiving from other family members to attend can be emotionally draining. My N sister does not let up on the abuse to myself and another sister. We both live quite close to her unlike other family members, so have had the bad luck to be her targets for abuse, manipulation, lies, vindictiveness, etc. The whole nine yards. I started no contact with her 4 years ago after a particular boundary breach that had me fuming and vowing to finally get her out of my life and head. But she convinced a younger sister, I will call her P, to come live with her in order to get her life together after years of being incarcerated. My N sister envisions herself to be a family life saver. This is not the first sibling she has “adopted” as her own personal mission. I got back into the N zone because P needed my help. She was being abused, her SSI handled very badly and every time P did something N did not like, N threatened her that she would send her back to jail. That she would find a way to do that.

Well, things finally got so bad that P left her house and went into a sort of mental health independent living housing an hour from the N’s house. I was finally able to help P in a way I couldn’t when she was staying at N’s house. (N was so jealous of any contact with P, it would start new wars, so I stayed away.)

6 months later, N is NOT allowed contact with P. She has caused so much turmoil at the MH living facility P is at and has abused and threatened the staff there. She is not allowed on the property.

We both have been practicing no contact, but continually get left nasty and threatening phone messages by N. P is counseled regularly and has a great support system, but it has taken a lot of time for her to heal from the abuse.

2 months ago, N went to California and brought back my brother, who is suffering from dementia to live with him. Here we go again. I had not seen him in 40 years because he always was a hermit type and never stayed in touch with family. Apparently, he had been evicted from an apt and a Social worker looked up family for him. Of course, N jumped at the chance to have another victim, so she flew out to California and had him on a plane with in 2 days.. with no transition plan except to try to manipulate P’s mental health facility to accept him as a resident. That did not happen because after talking to his social workers and doctor’s in California, they said he was not right for their program and recommended assisted living instead. That’s all it took for N to blame P on the decision, altho she had nothing to do with the decision. All hell has broken loose on P and N has been trying to get the director of the program fired. This has all been going on in the last few weeks.

The newest thing is, N has decided to have a family reunion. She calls it a “cousin reunion” and has invited all the cousins in the family to her lake house in July. She has 3 daughters she gave up at birth who were raised by their dads. She just got custody of 1, who is 17. How that happened I will never know, but it did. So she decided to try to get all her girls together. Fine. I support that. And that is where it should end. These kids have a lot of anger, a hole that needs to be filled and other family members need to take a back seat to that and let that happen. But no, N has rented a large lake cabin and proceeded to manipulate and lie to get people to come, using some very creative lies to get their attention Really hasn’t worked.. So far only one brother and his wife are going. And they are only going to provide support to N 3 daughters, as they have kept in touch with them over the years. ( I never knew where they were). 2 of my daughters are going altho they had had their own issues with N. But they want to see their cousins and they are strong women and I feel can handle her ok.

I will not go. P will not go. We both have been getting pleas from N’s 3 daughter’s to go. They have never met us. But we can’t. And since I won’t trash their mom to them, they try to understand but are disappointed. It’s sad. Any other family member having a reunion, I would jump right in. But my stomach clenches at the thought of putting myself in her target zone. She does the backhanded compliment thing in public everytime I am around her. I can’t do it. But I am standing strong and grateful to P’s MH counselors for forbidding her to have contact as well, because she fluctuates still. P has been getting phone messages from N to pressure her to go. That she will pay her if she comes and cleans her house and cooks before the reunion. P insulted and does not respond.

I guess I just wanted some support here for my decision to ignore all the pressure and have P at my house and we have our own fun in the days covering the reunion. We will get trashed, I am sure by the N to any one there, but i am pretty sure they are all on to her tactics. Even the daughters she abandoned. It has taken the 20+ years to even agree to meet and heal a bit. I hope it all works out. I have promised them “a no conflict” reunion time, and that means me and my armor stay away. It hurts I have to do this. P hurts we have to do this. I feel we are disappointing our nieces. But us being there would hurt more than hinder an already volatile situation. We are making the right decision and anyone else out there who is pressured to attend a family function where you just don’t want to go.. where the thought brings up emotions of fear and trepidation and even anger… just don’t go. You have to take care of you.

Thanks for listening.

Anonymous
Anonymous
Reply to  Julie L***********
10 years ago

I have been following the advice given here and I believe very word. It been nearly a year since I stopped having anything to do with my Narc and it’s still amazing what she( my aunt) is coming up with. what I did not realize is the amount of pain , hurt even guilt feeling I still experience. I know I have not one thing to feel guilty about, ( other than being so completely stupid to have took it so long) but still those feeling persist. I still have sleepless nights and very time I think of our past it is so surreal .
But I just know deep down My, really all of us here , have only one chance at peace. That’s to stay totally away and that means forever. sad But true.
hang in there!

x
x
10 years ago

my 53 year-old female boss is a narcissist, pathological liar, sociopath and an ephebophilia.
some of my aunts and uncles and their children from my mom’s and dad’s side are also narcs but i only stopped communication with them 3 years ago because we have been close as relatives since young. you bet for me to cut off my relations with them i had so many fights with my parents and siblings for 3 years. my parents are decent people but they love their siblings too much to realize what devilish people some of their siblings are.

not to mention one of my neighbor that moved in

my parents used to say that i am the one who is problematic because i keep quarreling with other people but my mom realized later the neighbur is indeed the type you won’t want to deal with. of the truth is i didn’t even realise this type of people exist, literally everywhere, from your workplace, relatives to neighbours. honestly what kind of world is this? thank God i am not dependent on the job i am having now even though the boss is a 53 year-old female tuition instructor who has sexual desire for 17-years old boys, younger than her youngest son.

my simple English is due to it being a second language

one last thing, why narcs never stop existing in my life, one comes after another, even a few at a same time?

i find some of the googling results below useful.

http://www.ask.com/answers/287672821/how-do-you-know-if-someone-is-lying-to-you

http://www.wikihow.com/Spot-a-Pathological-Liar

Pete
Pete
10 years ago

I (unwittingly) crossed a narcs path when, very early on in my career, I defended a narc victim. I didn’t think much of it at the time, and could never have in my wildest nightmares imagined that anyone would, and the NASTY repercussions of my actions. I say nightmares because this narc would go on to undermine my career by spreading rumours that I had fabricated all my work. But logic doesn’t seem to matter – even amongst seemingly rational people. Such is the manipulation skills of a narc. In fact that was only one of the many outrageous accusations that would be thinly disguised character assassination. I worked exceedingly hard to salvage my career and reputation, which I did to a small extent before leaving and moving to another institution. My problem is that it didn’t end there, and after some time the narc infiltrated and found a way to poison my workplace with the same lies and with the same effect. As you can imagine, I have become a social pariah. I don’t even have the opportunity to defend myself. How on earth do you turn this around? I’ve kinda just come to live with it like a crook leg. It makes me seethe and bewildered that “rational” people who you’ve known for years, if not decades, will accept his irrational lies despite their own first hand experience over a very long period of time. His aim is clearly destruction. Where do you go from here? I’ve never talked about it, because I didn’t want to incite him further and figured it might go away. But it hasn’t and I can’t find an effective strategy against this formidable opponent.

Pete
Pete
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated. I began to make a lot of traction, socially and workwise by never complaining (I’d have lost and only made a nuisance of myself), and working hard. His lies became a blessing, because they would contradict reality. He knew this and stopped. I had left by that stage, and life became normal for a while, and I continued advancing. After a litany of misdeeds/complaints/lack of performance issues, he was let go. This is when his rage kicked in, and the carpet bombing of propaganda came in waves. The first time we clashed all those years ago, he was the aggressor and I was the underdog. I guess I garnered some sympathy. This time, he is now the victim!! Apparently it’s all my fault he is out of work, even though I never complained to anyone and simply wore it. I haven’t seen him in 8 years! This has garnered enormous sympathy and coupled with his original stories, has somehow made them more appealing and credible. What’s more, his latest target audience – my colleagues – barely know him or his history. But he is such a “credible authority” that I can’t seem to win from here. Some who do know him have come to my defence. But he is such a dirty player that few will stick their neck out for fear of being entangled. I know exactly what you mean by nuclear. Problem is I don’t want collateral. I love my profession, colleagues and institution. And I don’t want to win at the expense of their wellbeing. Playing the social game is hard from behind the 8ball. People are suspicious of you and your motives. I feel I have no choice but to put my head down and continue. But if I lose my job over it, I may feel very differently. I’m coping a lot better with it this time, though it’s still tuff. I’ve come to realise how hard I’ve really become. I’m used to people whom you’ve had great relationships for years just turn on a dime. I simply pretend they no longer exist and that I never knew them. I refuse to accept their misguided righteous condemnation. It makes me angry. If it teaches you something about people, it’s that their self-interests rule when shit comes to shove, and the decency they have always professed seems to vanish. It’s fear driven. There are great people too. People who support you no matter what. I’ve faced a lot of hurdles in life, and surmounting them made me who I am. But I could never have imagined this!

J
J
10 years ago

I am married to a narc and I have two narc sons and a mild narc daughter. The o,dest son is the biggest problem and nas been raging out of control since he was 13. Later he got crooked and hooked by a bigger narc than he is.

Our daughter has been very close to us but not since the daughter-in-law has been dangling carrots to her (with the grandchildren) in order to put me (she calls the “monster-in-law) out of the family. Unfortunately my son supports his wife and also uses the grandchildren as pawns to manipulate my husband and I. His in-laws are also narcs who are loving all the time they get to have with their grandchildren. It seems to me that we are not far from the Hatfields and the McCoys.

Fortunately my other son has been seeing a wellness doctor and has made so much progress—he use to be one you really couldn’t have a real conversation (without him blowing up). But now I can talk about anything to him and he can hear the hard things. Yesterday I sent him an article in a message on FB about having a Narristic Father. He read it and then responded back that according to the 10 point checklist that he himself was a narc. We have been talking back and forth about this new discovery he has in himself. What a blessing!!! I have one on the road to recovery .

I just don’t know how to deal with the other son, his wife, and in-laws. She tries to dangle the carrot to us in order to control us and bribe us for money (of course my son believes her story and is controlled by her). And our daughter has been a loose link in providing sister-in-law with info and our money to get to see the kids. The thing is…..this couple will not stop short of winning. In order for that to happen someone has to loose….and it always seems to be me….the one who is trying to hold the family together. My husband has written them off but being the invincible bull that he is…her whole family does not know who they are dealing with and what he is capable of.

A dad
A dad
Reply to  J
10 years ago

So sorry and sad for your situation. I am trying to figure out how to live my life with a possibly narcissistic grown child (from my ex, who is an N), and thus I am reading here. Your situation is more complicated. How do we love our children but not be doormats? Kudos that your one son is self-aware!

really
really
Reply to  J
9 years ago

So let me get this straight . . . in this constellation of terrible people you are the bright shining sun of purity and hope for redemption?

But not a narc yourself, right?

Hmmm . . . interesting.

Set Free
Set Free
10 years ago

Thanks for this post.

I was just contacted by someone who I haven’t talked to in over 15 years. We had a relationship in our 20’s. There were warning signs that I ignored and there was a lot of damage before it was all over.

They contacted me a little earlier. I gave them a terse three word response and that was the end of it.

I got another message yesterday, and I think I made a serious mistake in responding. I thought I was being kind. But I made a reference in my comment that wasn’t in line with their version of events (I hadn’t talked to them in years, I had no idea the alternate reality they had in their head.) They totally took offense to that and went off on me.

I made a second serious mistake when in response to their assertion that I still had resentment and had a “hole that couldn’t be filled,” I said I had forgiven them for wharf actually happened and listed it (mistake #3) and had complete peace about the situation.

I have received one vicious message after another, I actually got notification about another one as I’m writing this. It is amazing to me that they can actually write these things in the same conversation that they say they care about me.

You’d think they would notice the contradiction. It’s right there in black and white.

I could cave and say you’re right just to get them off my case, but I really have an issue giving in to abusive a-holes.

I could block them (this is on Facebook,) but even that seems like more of a reaction than I want to give.

I guess I’ll try just continuing to mute the conversations and hopefully they will drop it.

Alyssa
Alyssa
10 years ago

OK…..here is my current situation. My exhusband (who is adhd un diagnosed and untreated) married a narrsissit…..both under 40. My ex and I have two boys (10, 6) both of whom are diagnosed and are being treated for ADHD. Right now I’m running into the problem where my exhusbands’ wife wants to control everything I do. Down to what I feed my kids and how my routine at home should be or look like. I’m currently engaged and will be married in a month …and beginning of this year I gave notice to my ex and his wife that I want to relocate with my children. In the beginning they opposed…then they were for it…but while they were all for me moving with the children they never wrote anything in email nor text…they would call (usually his wife not him) and was always nice and saying they’d like to give me all the clothes they have for the boys with me. Needless to say this was a diversion to what they were really planning. To buy time and not have anything in writting so now I’m going to have to move without my boys because I’m too trusting of a person because I do go by what people say ( I should know better by now as this was not the first nor second time I’ve been burnt by them). I’ll have to fly back for court which is scheduled. I’m at the predicament where I feel if I win and take my boys with me to our new location….am I constantly going to be attacked by my ex and his wife, always on my back about what is going on with the boys because they were humiliated and didn’t win in court. Or do I just let have the children, leave them to their own demise and make sure I secure my time with my children for all vacations and holiday to keep my relationship strong with my children and always keep my home open to them if they wish to live with me when they at the age they are allowed to decide for themselves. My ex’s wife is exactly what you have explained….down to the “practiced smile”…which I’ve always noticed is strange…she needs to talk about how see is a smart person and considers herself a world traveller…she has over stepped her boundaries with me and my role as my childrens mother. But going thru I have picked my battles and understand that there are somethings she just can’t help but want or need to have control in order for her to feel that her world isn’t crashing down around her. If she wants to coordinate the boys extra cirricular activities ….have at er…as long as its what the boys would like to do. Any time I have told her and said “i’m just going to be honest and not trying to hurt your feelings but your overwhelming” , or “I don’t need you to tell me what to do in my house”….I get a tongue lashing from her. Lately how I’ve dealt with it and I nod my head say thats a good idea and go on with my life they way I want to do it. But figuring out these next steps with moving with my kids, without my kids….how far do I go to fight? Will I hurt myself emotionally, mentally and exhaust myself by trying to fight…or do I just let them have what they like move on with my life knowing that my kids are their own individuals and can be with me anytime they like. Soooo many questions…how to deal? And there is no trying to talk openly and being honest with them and putting everything on the table….they will just say one this and do another and stab you in the back. I’m working on now not to trust either of them…its though when they share my boys with me. How do you just let people look after your kids whom you don’t trust? Ugh

Alyssa
Alyssa
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

I’m curious to hear why the concern over “If they indicate something in that house is freaking them out, or they have any sort of health problems emerge (even if it seems unrelated), then try to get them out as quickly as you can.

Reason why I’m asking is the narc step mom his constantly setting up allergist appointments and other health appointments for the boys. I just found out that my boys (ages 10 and 6) have been going to a chiropractor regularly when they with their dad and step mom (the narc). She has also been pushing holistic views etc…which is not a big deal but on top of pushing the food issue with me to the point where she would email me what she gave the boys for the week, including the amount of water they drank, she would send me meal menus. Her and my ex did not like that sometimes I would make my boys hotdogs or mac and cheese for dinner….being a single mom with a full time career doesn’t give me time to prepare meals from scratch. But she also has them on quite a few different suppliments. (I’d say based on the list of suppliments she sent me saying I “need” to give to the boys because the holistic nutritionist said so…they are probably swallowing 10 pills a day) but the newest “health” issue that has been brought up is that the boys are having problems hearing. But its total BS….myself and anyone I know that has spent time with me and the boys say they don’t have hearing problems. They are young boys with ADHD….yes they hear what and when they want….or are just flat out distracted. I had their hearing checked last year and it was fine. But with the hearing issue they they feel the boys have…the holistic allergist has added yet another suppliment…some natural anti-histamine saying allergies are causing inflamation etc. Sometimes I feel like I could write a book on all the crap that has happened. Staying on topic with my questions….is it just a concern that you brought that up….that perhaps is an illness should arise that it could be just the child is under stress or should there be other things I should be aware of with a narcissists being around children?

Alyssa
Alyssa
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

Thankyou so much for your input. Over the last few weeks and reading up on narc I’ve had so many “ah-ha” moments. So many experiences and dealings with the narc are making sense now when they didn’t before. Likes things didn’t add up or I thought “yeah maybe I am being unreasonable”….not anymore. I’m sure I’ll have to give myself constant reminders…but those close to me know what I’m dealing with so they should be a good support system for me. Another question has come to mind,…I have an actual psychological evaluation that my sons step mom (narc) had done because I argued her having my boys while their dad was working out of town. I didn’t see the need for them to be away from a biological parent if they didn’t need to be (if that makes sense). So her and my ex got the evaluation done…..in there they psychologist did point out in the test terms(MCMI-III) that she scored extremely high on scales four, five and seven. Which, from my research are histrionic, narcissist and compulsive. Is there any harm, now if things were to escalate whether verbal, msgs, email or friends and family, to actually point out that she is in fact a narcissist and specifically point out the characteristics that she is displaying at that time that are very manipulative and are traits of a narcissist….or would that back fire on me?

Diana
Diana
10 years ago

This is so very interesting, I was married to a narc and have a 16 yr old daughter who is a narc. I have learned so much by dealing with the ex, but my child has really thrown me for a loop, what I have read has put things in perspective, I truly enjoy learning how to deal with a narc and even how to fend them off, this is wonderful information.
My new phrase with my daughter will be, it’s not my problem, it’s your problem and I will turn away from her. I have now learned to just laugh and walk away. Since I do not think like her I couldn’t figure out a way to deal with her, thank you for your insight, I already feel hope and some peace of mind. Again I Thank you.

Anon
Anon
10 years ago

I had this one narc employer that after a year of moving out of the city decided to phone my residence out of nowhere to apologize for his unwarranted “rude” behavior. I found this to be very strange action for a narc to undertake as I would never possibly have contact with again. Obviously I question the sincerity and it wasn’t me that this narc contacted directly but it was my parents who knew him so I didn’t catch the tone of his voice or what he said in specific.
Is this simply a part of a narc’s behavior to do so? I think it wasn’t sincere in the least but what was the purpose of it? Or is there no purpose to any of it? There is no manipulative value to it and I didn’t think a narcissist would have any sort of empathy to even recognize his wrong doings.

I figure something went wrong with him like maybe karma dealt a blow and he somehow relapsed momentarily into humanity only just for a second. That’s probably an optimistic delusion though. I’m just having some problems fitting pieces together.

Anon
Anon
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

Thank you for your insights.

I have no intention of getting near him but at the same time he isn’t particularity a bright narc. He’s relatively young but you can detect his foul narc odor from a mile away. There really isn’t anything he could gain from contacting my family but then again he probably doesn’t even know that. I guess I projected my own humanity and sense onto him which obviously was a mistake.

I forgot about him for some time but after I read this article I felt like I needed to share this. Narcs are just odd people indeed.

Rod Peters
Rod Peters
10 years ago

I am in a difficult situation. My mother in law has NPD. She claims to be part of some royal family, and wiser than anyone else. Any of my accomplishments she claims to have done it and done it well. She claims everyone loves her and praises her but always seems to be alone. My wife just seems to sweep it under the rug and say that’s how mom is. Doesn’t seem to matter what the topic is she’s an expert on the matter. She has a way of pretending she’s talking about someone else but really she’s talking about you. She claims to be friends with celebrities and lies about how much money she makes. I’ve tried to distance myself but somehow always get pulled back in. I literally don’t believe ANYTHING she has to say. I usually just ignore her but I think she just takes that as me complying to her bullshit. I’ve told my wife I’m fed up with all the BS we stay away for a little while then she pulls out the “poor me” card. I also believe if I “cross her” she badmouths me to others and we live in a tight nit community.

Linda
Linda
10 years ago

What can I do if I am the target of my narcissistic brother since I had control of my parents health and property though guardianship , making me the ultimate target of his anger and threats. Now the narc is the executor of the will…so I cannot avoid him.
How can I control my emotions and my fear of him?

Lilly
10 years ago

Hi! Thank you for this article. I am living with narcissist in laws. They have been manipulating and destroying relationships right from day 1 that I have been married. They are absolutely over bearing and trying to create issues in my life. I was under severe depression for one year until I started realising that I am not the wrong one here. It is them. I started distancing myself from them and they started harassing my husband now. They are so selfish and so inhuman it’s not even funny. They don’t deserve to be around human beings. They are infant worse than a wild animal. I still have to put up with them twice in a week and this is just something we will have to do because otherwise they are quite capable of crossing all boundaries. In a way it’s fear that they have built in my husband and are feeding on it. They are so antisocial, they have no friends, no relatives, no one at all. No one wants to be around such nasty beasts. I am trying to cope with them which is very tough. I am slowly trying to get my husband to see through them. They are such psychos. Is there a way I can reveal their true selves to the world. Please help me otherwise they will ruin our lives.

Lilly
10 years ago

Thank you so much for replying. To answer your question, my husband and I live by ourselves an hours drive from their house. My MIL has made rules to meet twice in a week and if her children don’t obey her she will make their lives a living hell. But I guess they just don’t see it. They call me in the absence of my husband and say real nasty things but not directly so I cannot hold them for it. They conveniently say that I am the one with the negative mind. I had a massive show down once with my Narc MIL and she has turned the whole family against me. It’s the vicious triangle, where I am the victim, mil is the perpetrator and hubby is the rescuer. It’s a never ending saga. I am starting to get tired of it and just want to get rid of them permanently. We will eventually start a family and under no circumstances I want my children to be around them. They keep forcing my husband to buy a house close to them. I will die but never let that happen, I don’t know how to convince my husband against it. She calls my husband and completely disturbs him. She knows how to play her cards and is always looking to destroy happiness and love wherever she sees it. I feel like informing the cops about it, it’s come to that. I am reading up everyday on this type and trying to help myself. But I need a permanent solution and my husband won’t let me take therapy. I don’t know what to do.

Sylvia
Sylvia
10 years ago

I have always known my father has NPD but just figured out my identical twin sis is the same as he is. She has put me through nothing short of H… The only blessing is we moved over a 1000 miles away from each other. I feel so sorry for her husband and children (that have special needs). She is a miserable piece of work. I keep thinking someday she will get it, but she is so good at manipulation I just wonder WHEN?? She loves to make me look like a devil and I keep all my long term friendships away from her because she will try to dissolve any decent relationship I have due to hating me. I remember seeing an old movie with Jane Seymour I think played a twin where another twin tried to kill her sister. That is my narcissistic twin sister, evil to the core.

Manalowska
Manalowska
10 years ago

My Narcissit is my older sister.
I do not remember the time when she was NOT so greedy and cunning all the description above applies to her she so pathetic she can do anything to get attention of course all the folks in the family see her as charming and good hearted lol now since i was the only one in our family who saw her for what she really is i pulled free from her.The tension increased when she moved to our house(Im a student and live with my parents)i use some of the tactics in this article as to ignore her completely but she cant help but interferring with my life so i had a fight with my other brother the other day and she with whome i havent’ spoken for a year showed up to defend me.I dont know what that psycho said to him so he laughs at me now and over look me!

Masie
Masie
Reply to  Manalowska
8 years ago

Just the same as my youngest sister 10 years younger. She grew up having our parents to herself, we were all at college or still at school. But I went back to live with them as they needed my income, whereas I could commute to a wonderful and fulfilling job.

She introduced me to my husband, I think purely to remove me from them – jealous of my close easy-going relationship with them. When I eventually moved to live with my husband shortly before marrying him, my parents had to sell up (they couldn’t afford its upkeep without my contribution) and bought a house for my sister and combined forces. It’s been a disaster. She’s spent all of the balance of their savings from the house sale, re-mortgaged their joint home so it’s in negative equity and is now about to be declared a bankrupt.

I find I meet new people who are nice, normal and interested. I’m treated like anyone else. If my sister notices me getting on well or I said, I liked so-and-so, the next time I meet them there’s that look in their eyes. She’s done her hatchet job.

I knew this pattern was going on or suspected it was for many years. But had confirmation. My mother had carers and I’ve made very good friends with one couple. The wife speaks and understands English, the husband understands English, but is shy about speaking it. So my sister felt she could say what she liked in front of him and was indiscrete. Basically she’d tell anyone who’ll listen I’m potty. Now I understood why so many very old family friends behave oddly. Now I knew I would never make any headway while I’m here. I pleaded with my husband for us to move abroad, I’d realised we could only happy when she is miles away and had no part in our lives.

She got divorced. After 13 years of what I thought was a happy marriage, I am having to divorce too. Somehow she’s said something or told my husband such an outrageous lie about me he won’t live with me. I have to take the view that he’s not worth it – when he raged (I now suspect he’s NPD although I’d never heard of it – they tend to form groups) shortly before abandoning me, I pleaded to know what was wrong – one minute was fine the next all hell broke loose. Anyone so easily swayed, who wouldn’t stood up for me, wouldn’t trust in me, isn’t worth my love. I can’t trust or respect him.

Her life was disintegrating, so mine had to as well. But I’ll be free, it will be hard, but I will be free. She will never control me again. I’ll make a new life for myself, she will be trapped in her own misery and the ruins. She’ll probably feel victorious. But I’m going to make sure I’m happy again, it was my default state. It’s me. We’re normal we want a good life. Trust in that.

Anonymous
Anonymous
Reply to  Masie
8 years ago

This is old, but I hope that you go to your husband and hand him a letter detailing everything that you’ve been through, and how your sister may have contributed. If your sister poisoned him, then he’s sick, now. So when he looks at you, rages at you, and seemingly has abandoned hope in you (or who you “used” to be, in his eyes), please know that he is SICK. Your sister poisoned him, it seems, and it’s NOT FAIR to you, OR to him, for you to just leave it at that. She does NOT deserve to win. Marriage is a forever bond, and you and your husband must have had a bond enough to be married, why would you let a witch break it asunder? You need to fight for YOUR husband, and YOUR marriage. At the very least you need to be detailed in letter that you hand DIRECTLY to him, about what’s REALLY going on, and at the end, ask him to be fair to you and tell you what the Devil’s henchwoman told him that lead to you YOUR marriage being dissolved!
YOU made a vow before God to that man, saying, “’till death do us part,” NOT ’til my wicked witch of a monster does us part–but DEATH!

You have NO idea what a divorce brought on by a bitter witch will do to you, and you have NO idea what a divorce really will do to your soul in the future.

Please don’t be so casual with someone whom you’ve invested SO much into, and whose invested SO much into you (your husband). You will possibly open up your life to be defeated in other areas.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE fight for YOUR husband and fight for YOUR life!

And at some point, you need to write a detailed letter and read it aloud to that witch of sister of yours being respectful, but being honest and let that go and be that!

She will not change, but you have a right to allow your voice to be heard, and a right to speak the truth on your OWN behalf. This IS biblical, but, as AnonConserv would say–I don’t know the details in YOUR situation, so possibly–this would be unwise–akin to making oneself a fool by arguing with one.

-PLEASE be a FIGHTER! Your marriage is WORTH it, and your soul is too! I speak from an “ignorant of your life circumstances” pedestal, so excuse me for speaking out of turn–I just have wrath at the thought of a marriage being broken up–NOT because of the two people IN IT–but because of a monster whose own marriage dissolved (more than likely because of…well…her!). I mean absolutely NO disrespect, rudeness, etc., toward you, neither do I mean to come off as high-minded or haughty, I just want you to win–and divorce is FAR from winning (at least from MY window’s perch, looking outside-in to YOUR backyard).

-Much love to you, and I hope that you will see this in time to save your marriage,

-Sincerely,
Just Another Anon.

Just Another Anon.
Reply to  Masie
8 years ago

I forgot to say, Masie, that she COULD have implied, or outright LIED and said that you cheated…how would you feel if you’d been lead to believe this about your husband by his own brother, PLEASE fight. On my last message I did not list a name or website, but when I posted, a name and website was added (I saw before the screen flashed and listed my previous comment as “…awaiting moderation,” so I’ll post a real email below and just post my name as Anon, and my website as none, in case you get my comments are accidentally attributed incorrectly. My NARCs LOVE to impersonate me (online, via telephone, etc., *sighs*) and intercept ALL of my contact information (email, snail mail, voicemail, answering machine messages, online accounts, etc.), and have been doing so for a VERY long time, so I just list that as a disclaimer, because I don’t want anything to be written on my behalf by THEM, to you, or anyone else. Sounds bat guano crazy, but sadly, is very true.

Manalowska
Manalowska
10 years ago

I also have to see her on daily basis-though not speaking(and that is okey for her as long as i don’t speak to anyone else as well)which make it difficult for me to stay in peace.She tries to know everything about me-using her little daughters or letting my mom tell her willingly,of course.If i was having a good company with anyone she will be frantic untill she becomes the centre of attention.You said in this article they deteriorate as they get older but from what i see my Narc is getting more noxious and calm in her ways,which bothers me to see how everybody is hypnotised by her while she’s making fun of them.Sorry for my chaotic writing life is no longer normal when you encounter such demons any help please as to how to deal if at all with her?
Thanks in advance

lynette
lynette
10 years ago

i am in a trap. i cannot.move its checkmate i would go to checkout but i have a responsibility to the children. i had all i needed that was a home my little family and i worked hard.text thong i know ten yrs goes by and I’ve been robbed humiliated degraded gaslghted to the point of insanity.Im penniless without friends and I’ve veena unwell so that my looks have all gone.my hair is on the floor my teeth in the bin and my once radiant skin is mottled and scabby . i have lost almost everything a human could lose in terms of hope and live inside a dark cave waiting on the next cycle of trauma coming but nobody ever sees or hears the
truth..people walk by and look at me as though in Im a problem person.i had no idea what it was all about until a few weeks ago i read an article in it was my scenario.still in shock and reeling from the facts i will use the info to my advantage but Im now scared to go anywhere much and go out at night.

Pete
Pete
Reply to  lynette
10 years ago

Yeah, many of us around here understand your situation completely and greatly empathise with you. I know it must be heart breaking for you right now. You have been given great advice by the web host, and it helps to know you are not alone. As stated, you must believe that you will recover well from this. The sooner you accept this as truth the better. Refuse the victim mentality. It’s not an option for you. You must also look after your health and get sleep – vital. The best way for your brain to accept/cope with your situation is to view this as a cosmic/spiritual challenge. We all have them. Just that a narc will make sure you achieve black belt dan 6, rather than yellow belt. No one will mess with you no more. You will come out of this a better or worse person – choice is yours. Take yourself out of your mind. A narc has the skill to use your mind against you. Don’t let him! Keep busy doing things that will help you. A bit of personal growth work helps. And you’d better develop a thick skin. Don’t give people (especially the narcs foot soldiers) power by reacting to them. They must react to you! Keep your head up, and be careful you don’t slip into depression. Its sneeks up on you without you being aware. Seek medication and/or councilling if you need it. Don’t do anything stupid/wrong/illegal out of anger and spite. The narc WILL trip you up. Sorry for the disjointed thoughts. There is lots of very good advice on this website. I wish you well on your journey. May the force be with you.

Scott
Scott
10 years ago

I wouldn’t even be surprised that you are lamenting your low energy levels, and/or reduced health, and the difficulty of realising all of your potential.
Reading this almost made me cry – I have been trying to cope with some people in my life who have through manipulative and vindictive behaviour brought me into a depressive funk that I am struggling to cope with – they are not friends so much as people who share the same interest as me but who I have to share time with when I pursue my hobby – they are behaving in ways you describe in this article – one even tried to get me excluded from a holiday I had arranged away from them – he wrote to the organiser and actually got them to question my inclusion – they have managed to place me on the outskirts of what was a nice warm collaborative group – I now dread being near them and find I am missing days to avoid them… I am not sure how to move on but reading this feels like a start – gaining a framework of understanding – even being able to dehumanise them calling them a narcissist feels like a start – many thanks for creating this piece…

Bill
Bill
10 years ago

I was raised by a Narc who was borderline sociopath. Fun times! I realized that
Through out my life I kept on trying to have friend ships with these people just like
I tried having a relationship with my father. What painful years of my life repeating
This process. Few years back after some great therapy, I said goodbye to them all. What a great decision. What freedom!!! They suck way to much oxygen from the room and I no longer have to fight to survive in these relationships! It is so nice to have finally come to the realization it’s their problem, not a deficiency in me!!

Anonymous
Anonymous
Reply to  Bill
9 years ago

I am extremely worried about this for my child. I ignored some minor red flags, and once I had my baby the ugliness really started. I am now in a custody battle with my ex, he is trying to ruin me financially and emotionally. He has brought up traumas from my childhood and forced me to talk about them in counseling (relationship counseling he dug up every little thing I ever told him and made it all about me). He is trying to humiliate me and has been using the court system to terrorize me.

I don’t know how to make this stop. If he gets a “win” (which he did in our 1st hearing) it only empowers him to keep pursuing…if I attempt to push back on anything he attacks with a full arsenal. I feel like there is no one who can help me.

Mish
Mish
10 years ago

Hi AC

A few years ago I stumbled across NPD and aha, that’s what was wrong with dad the bastard!

Told my family about it, and to my surprise, they don’t want to know. Ignorance is bliss… or rather, having me as scapegoat was very convenient for them.

Since then I’ve had many narcissists in my life, some very vicious people – and I keep moving ’em out. What’s the point of one sided relationships?

Isabelle
Isabelle
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

We recently became the targets of our N neighbour from next door. Obviously we tried to counter this by speaking to the real estate agent and calling the cops for intimidation and deliberate noise threats. It all failed with her turning this around in her favour and we eventually thought it too much to deal with and have started to look for another place. The question that keeps running through my mind is whether we could have turned this situation around? Is it possible to become their target and get her to stop abusing/terrorizing us on a daily basis? Would she get bored and target someone else altogether? Its an issue because at our last place of residence a similar sort of thing happened and we had to move. Now this is happening again I neee to find out how to avoid becoming targeted at our next place of residence? Thanks in advance for the replies.

Isabelle
Isabelle
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

Does that mean every time you become targeted by an N you have to move on though? Whether its at work or home… It’s exhausting no? Having established yourself at a place and then have to move on again and again… What’s the secret to not being targeted then? We never even had any contact with this person until they started making a tremendous amount of noise wanting to annoy us to do/say something. When we did she went on the warpath… If we didn’t do/say something she was already targeting us… You mentioned that you had managed to get a fee Ns to leave you alone… How did you do that after they started to target you?

Manalowska
Manalowska
10 years ago

Okay so im secretely planning my escape !Since im totally dependent financially on my family,who has lately cut off every supply from me-obeying my Narc Mom im thinking of a way to MAKE HER give me what i need.She actually asked me to leave after she consumed every possible way to srew me up and failed.Please i want to know what is the best way to ask her money? ? she is dying to see me weak.

Thanks

Manalowska
Manalowska
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

Thank you so much,that sums it all up without any personalized details.She has gave up on Ego-boxing with me for a quite period of time now,it’s just when i talked about money the other day she felt like a winner(I once threatend her that i will work a shameful part time job and tell her acquaintance about it-but this didn’t work this time lol)Living 18 years with a Co-Narc family-i venture to say,has made me stronger.Im not going to depend on or even have any contact with them after my leaving it’s just i don’t want to stay around them any longer.
I thought,perhaps i can act out the unstable state she wishes to see me in and promise her-indirectly, for more without boosting her sadistic spirits,provided she gives what i need !:|
Thank you dear Anonymous
Blessings~

Isabelle
Isabelle
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

I just wanted to thank you again for this blog and the effort you have put in to answer our questions. It’s truly harrowing rereading some of these stories. Since we moved away from our N neighbour last month I am back to my happy self again. I just wanted to thank you for your support during that time. Your advice was very much appreciated. Hope you have a Merry Christmas and a wonderful New Years! Take care AC.

Andrea
Andrea
10 years ago

I have recently discovered that my mother is a narc, and perhaps my father as well. I have been reading ‘will I ever be good enough’ by Dr. Karyl McBride and it is helping me to disconnect emotionally.

I am trying to set boundaries now – my mom calls at all hours of the day, and I only call her back in the evening. The behaviour is subsequently escalating.

We are taking a trip abroad, and she disapproves. I started loudly agreeing with everything she said “You’re right, I am a terrible mother. Yes, I am stupid. Yep, I should be drug out and shot.” She hated it. It was great to loudly acknowledge the crap she was feeding me.

In retaliation, she called my husband, and lied about a travel advisory in order to trigger a fight between us. I refused to return her calls for a couple of days, and decided to stick with one message – ‘Do not call my husband at work.’

She exploded. She told me she would never speak to me again (relief!). Then my father called my husband and chanted ‘whiny little baby’ at him over and over like a child. Then my mother called to tell me she had no daughter. I remained calm and agreeable.

She texted me a long winded thing about how she still thinks of me as her little girl and only wants to protect me. I have called a two week hiatus.

Then I go to visit my grandmother and who happens to visit? She has told my grandmother that we have disagreed about the vacation. I don’t want to stress out my elderly grandmother so I don’t push it.

I still want my extended family in my life, but I sure as hell don’t need to listen to this nonsense every day, it is wearing me down. My ideal goal would be to have a civil, unemotional relationship with her and this latest fight where I was disowned might be my window for change. Any ideas for setting boundaries with these nightmares?

Andrea
Andrea
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

Thank you for your prompt and thoughtful response. I appreciate the article, and the sympathetic ear.

Just Another Anon.
Reply to  Andrea
8 years ago

You need to lay all of this out to the authorities and get a restraining order for the harassment. I saw someone whose husband did this for her on another website. After you tell someone not to call you anymore, and they do, then that is legally harassment–I THINK–but just get the restraining order backed with enough intelligent data and coupled with what you just wrote above. You may or may NOT be able to spend time with your other family, but you need to have a talk with them where you logically outline EVERYTHING in detail so and hold NOTHING back. You need to do this to tell them WHY you wan to be around them, and WHY when you visit them–she can NOT be there. It will mean that you will miss out on family events where she is invited–BUT depending on the emotional intelligence/maturity level of the people in your family–IF they choose to respect your desire to be with them WITHOUT being with her, then you gain a new stress-free ability to be around those you love with the fear of a “surprise” visit by your particular abuser.

What you wrote was short, clear, and I believed quite easily–but I am on a webpage concerning this exact subject for a reason…that being said to say that others, who have only seen Dr. Hyde may not “believe in” Mr.–or M(r)s. Jekyll. I say that to say that, you may not be believed, or you may be believed but still end up with the loss because people are afraid of standing up for/with you to the monster for fear (either subconsciously or consciously that they will, in turn, reap the same treatment that they’ve [silently] witnessed you receiving (IF they’ve witnessed it in the past, or are just being made known about it by you, in the present).

Anonymous
Anonymous
10 years ago

This is an interesting article, though disturbing. If you believe narcissism lies behind some liberal thought, then what about the New Age movement? The latter has become mainstream: witness Oprah flogging “The Secret,” the book that promises our wishes come true! Looks and smells like narcissism to me.

I have an interest in this subject because my parents were narcissists, and I was the family scapegoat. My husband’s ex-wife is definitely a narcissist. I feel sad that I spent so much time with the children, my stepchildren. Yup, the ex-wife blackmailed my husband and dumped major childcare duties on me, while undermining me behind my back and colluding with dysfunctional behaviors. The stepchildren are adults now. I’ve just finished talking to the eldest long-distance, and she too fits your narcissist description. I like to think people change and grow up, but at this point, I just feel played and used by a 30-year old.

I try to accept people as they are and appreciate the good in them. But in the case of the narcissists in my life, I reluctantly have learned to set boundaries and protect myself. It’s up to them to change themselves, not anyone else.

Anonymous
Anonymous
10 years ago

I posted yesterday and see my comment hasn’t come up yet. Well, it can be deleted! I was still trying…I emailed the N in my life early this morning and oh boy. Thank you, thank you for the sanity of your article, which I’ve reread. The N turns everything around: she’s “exhausted” at having to be someone she’s not. She’s not who I want her to be. Okay! Reasonable expectations are too much for the N. The N can’t grasp the difference between feelings and behavior, the former rationalizing the latter in the N’s mind. There’s just no discussing things, no saying how I feel. My feelings and rights (what?) don’t count. The N doesn’t understand the concepts of honest love, sincere apologies, taking responsibility, choosing behaviors…all that adult stuff people get by the time they’re 30, right? (Wrong, if it’s an N in question.) Then again, this N once tried to kill me (or did a good imitation of it) and has assaulted me several times, only stopping her physical abuse when I threatened her with the police. Still can’t trust her on the lying and stealing fronts. She really doesn’t have inner brakes (unless her well-being is threatened) or a sense of healthy shame. Shame on me for being fooled so many times. The weird thing is, the more I accept the way things are, the freer and happier I feel. I’m beginning to look forward to the rest of my life.

Connie H.
Connie H.
10 years ago

this is an update on my situation..My earlier post was under C in May of 2013.
well its been 17 months since I completely cut this Narc out of my life. It is a understatement to say its been the worst time of my life. You all must understand , (evidently) there are different degrees of Narcs and I just happened to be connected to the worst type. she has consistently degraded my name and caused so much discontent within our extended family..So Very sad especially at this time of year. her oldest sister is my Mother , which make the narc just 5 years older than me..That’s why we were so cLose. Almost all the family has even turned thier back on her since she lives with me and my husband. she does not understand and I don’t want to stress her , since she has a bad heart.
What I want these folks to understand is..when you make to decision to disconnect you had better be prepared for some of the roughest times of your lives. it is not an easy thing to do and I tell the truth if I had not have had to do this I probably would just kept being the lap dog for the rest of my life..Yes So sad!! But I cannot stress how evil these people can be. I feel I have been raised under the spell of a demon. I am so serious!
Keep hoping she will show her true colors ..she is 66 now. but she does have a good supply of family near her.
I can only Hope and pray that someday the people I love so dear will see and know the truth.
This whole thing sure has taken a toll on me and I sure do not understand why I have to suffer so bad, but in all I am glad I don’t have to see her and That’s something.

melinda l.
melinda l.
10 years ago

everything you said is so true
my mother and son are narcissist
my daughter and me have been shot at by them. more than once.we cut all ties 3 years ago they still stalk us backstab turned the family against us. took both to court and they lied in court. they have no friends anymore. i do believe they belong to the devil! its very inportant to stay away from these freaks.

XYZ
XYZ
10 years ago

AC, you should definitely look here:
http://www.ponerology.com – A book on psychopaths as well as related mentally disturbed individuals in the context of politics, written by a polish clinical psychologist during the Soviet occupation
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum – Discussion about psychopaths, narcissists and similarly damaged individuals and their influence on society in theory as well as real cases

XYZ
XYZ
10 years ago

Sorry, forgot, hadn’t read some of the comments here:

People who are or have been victims of narcissists/sociopaths/psychopaths should definitely head to the Cassiopaea forum at http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum.
There is lots of enlightening material posted by people who are or have been in such a situation – the gist of it is that to deal with such characters as described in this article one MUST procure the knowledge on what to do and one MUST network with other people.

Best luck.

happyeverafter
happyeverafter
10 years ago

Thanks for sharing all that important info with us.
My big brother is a Narc and it took me until my 30s to discover it.
All my life I was wondering and seeing all his strange behavior as a puzzle to solve.
Right now his move was to out-group me in the family.
My mother is totally spellbound by him, and now my parents want to inherit their
company to him.
My father (I suppose he has also a NPD but not as bad) and my brother always hated each other.
Now that my brother who was unemployed for the last year has the chance
to overtake the company and gain a lot of power.
So he is of course playing the charming son inventing all kind of lies of me.
All the things I told him before I knew about his disorder he now uses
against me.
Im living in Germany and its not easy to find a pro in this topic.
But after a year of heavy depression and almost becoming an alcoholic
I started a therapy.
I read the book :Stalking the Soul from Marie-France Hirigoyen
that helped a lot to understand in what dilemma I am.
My husband and me refurbished the old house of my grandparents
what my mother told us to do
which took us besides work almost 3 years and a lot of money and pain in the
ass. Everything was alright until my brother appeared on the scene.
As my brother saw how beautifully we made the house and how happy my husband and me are he was convincing my mother getting us out of the house
or paying an irrational rent …
I called my father and told him that I will consult a lawyer so my husband and me
can maybe get some of the money back we put in the house.
Now my father wants to mediate in this case.
Its really hard for me after all this work getting confronted with only anger
greed and hate.
My husband and me found a nice apartment in the city … but still
we did not leave the house fully
I understand the game my Narc brother is playing but I can’t understand the
behavior of my mother
Only to think about it makes me sick and very sad.
What can we do ?

Anonomous
Anonomous
10 years ago

I just read this article, along with every single comment. My innards were twisted up in knots just reading your Narc Nightmare stories b/c I can greatly emphasize with each one of you. The pain of absolute betrayal and malice seeps deeply into our soul’s very being. They truly are crazy as a fox, yet in total control. You give me hope, though, that with time and age they will reveal themselves. I can also confirm that fake, creepy smile that they usually acquire over time. It’s of the cartoonish-psycho hybrid variety. No smiling from the eyes/soul at all. Their lips clenched over teeth too tightly. There are give always but while under their spell, all the signs and red flags will be lost until their masks starts to slip in front of you.

I have been no contact with my whole family (including extended other than one sister who left 9 years before me) over two years. I began to wake up in 1996 after going thru a major betrayal, then witnessed how everyone swept it under the carpet as if it didn’t happen, and I became one with the problem. My whole identity was wrapped into my big family and loyalty. They slowly began taking all means of outside support away. This was a preemptive strike. In fact, this isolation started in childhood, first from my Nmom manipulating my father. We didn’t have a conversation until I was 19 years old. And guess who stood in the background the whole time, making sure we didn’t connect dots. She also filled my head with horrible lies about my father too, but my heart was too tender to hate him. My father, in return, acted with disgust and rejection. God only knows what he was told about me.

He died of bladder cancer. I was told by several doctors that the cause is by being exposed to toxins. My NM used to hint, plant seeds, to me and other siblings in childhood that my dad had poisoned his first wife, who died of cancer. She also refuses to eat out at restaurants, and seems obsessed about people putting stuff in her food. We all know, at least now, that Narcs project who and what they are on to their targets. Her behavior was so odd the day he died, and preceding, that I still have a hard time processing what I witnessed.

She had keys to my house, we eventually changed them and moved far away. My beloved dog who was well taken care of, and spent a lot of time with her after my father’s death (I knew something was off put could not connect the dots). At 9, my dog who was like a child to me, got cancer. After spending thousands on surgery and chemo, we finally had to put her to sleep b/c of her suffering.

You are right to warn people here of their propensity for revenge, even by poisoning. Like you said, it’s so sick and crazy that no one will believe you. Also, Narcs invest heavily in preserving their false persona, it would make you look crazy unless you get them on tape like the girl did in the movie The Sixth Sense.

I wonder how many of you were warned in your dreams? I had several dreams that almost felt like warnings. As I saught God more in my life, the more discernment/intuition grew, and the dreams. Six months before moving away, I cried to God in the way that a broken person does….my whole body shook from the years of stress I lived under with a NMom and NSister who with their charm and manipulation run the family show. In my tears, I asked God to move us if it was His will. Out of the blue five months later, my husband, who was not looking for a job, got recruited by an executive headhunter, and it was a perfect match.

Today, I’m in my 30’s and had a cardiac ablation two years ago for rapid heart beat, and in August I was diagnosed with a serious gut problem that can kill me. The surgeon wants to remove 40 percent of my colon – called a resection. Getting a second opinion. All the docs who see my CT scans are very concerned. This is a disease that statistically strikes 60 plus crowd. I am living proof that these Narcs are very dangerous, especially if they are in your family and well-hidden. You can always get another job, dump a friend (but still expect revenge complications in they are Narcs). It’s much harder when they are your mother, father, child and sibling. Society looks to the child leaving as the one with the problem.

Anonymous
Anonymous
Reply to  Anonomous
1 year ago

These posts are so old probably no one will see this comment. But – my husband’s ex-wife has some extremely serious issues (I hesitate to say she’s full-blown narcissist, but definitely has tendencies). And, in 2020 my husband and both of her parents were all diagnosed with bladder cancer, which seemed extremely weird to me. He hasn’t lived with her for nearly 20 years, though they do have children together so maintained frequent contact. Her parents lived next door. That seems like a very long time for him for some sort of poisoning to have only just resulted in cancer, but who knows.

Anonomous
Anonomous
10 years ago

One last thing:

I have read People of the Lie, The Sociopath Next Door, Without Conscience, tons of blogs, and out all these resources on the subject, your piece here along with your comment responses nail the Narc to the wall more than anything I’ve read out there to date, and without the psycho babble too. And we all know nailing a Narc to the wall is like nailing jello. You can’t.

Your repeated warnings about poisoning, slow murder should not go unheeded. Your responses about channelling the calm, amusing reactions of Lector, although unorthodox, is brilliant advice. Narcs truly feed on pushing our emotive buttons. All the more when they have an audience, those who they’ve been smearing you to behind your back. Then after the set-up, they say, “See, she’s crazy” and play the long suffering victim. This creates a false reality for the enablers. In time, when Narc’s seeds are planted, there will be a harvest. That harvest is having those you love unknow you. It’s likened to a total wipe-out of your existence. Due to this, I subconsciously developed a Rainman-like autobiographical memory (total recall on dates, times, total conversation recall – memory like film. Now I realize, it was for my very survival, kind of like anchoring in a Narc-storm. That acquired, good memory protected me from total breakdown.

I think of murderer Jodi Arias and victim Travis Alexander when you give your warning about Narcs/Sociopaths. He knew something was wrong with her, and even called her a sociopath in one of his writings, and yet she still disarmed him with her beauty and sex appeal long enough to destroy him. Then you got Casey Anthony too. Both cases are TEXTBOOK!

Isabelle
Isabelle
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
10 years ago

This post was very emotionally triggering for me. I found myself crying over your words. Like the previous poster, I also became very sick from my years dealing with my NMon and my Ex. I just got away by sheer dint of will. Almost losing my sanity, health and soul in the process. I wrote recently regarding the crazy sociopath neighbour and found your words a real comfort. But I felt I hadn’t won the bigger battle with my health declining over the years. Now finally, I feel I am on the path of recovery and reading others experiences’ is just harrowing. Its taken almost as long (5 years) to recover from a 5 years relationship with a N. Put together that’s 10 years of my life gone – that’s half a life sentence. I don’t know how anyone could stay with an N without getting sick. Thank you once again for your kind words and wishing you a very Merry Christmas!

Rachael
Rachael
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
8 years ago

I was so intrigued and encouraged to read your thoughts on TCM. I was diagnosed with severe endometriosis in January 2014 and had surgery which did nothing to help! I was raised by a Narc single mother and have attracted myriad narcissistic, alcoholic, destructive people into my life (boyfriends, colleagues and I was drawn to the theatre life, where narcissism is rampant and even applauded.) Now in my mid 30’s, I am putting my health and life first, cutting out these arse holes and refusing to put career moves before mental/emotional health ever again!

Anyway, I have been convinced that my endometriosis is a result of my life long exposure to my Narc mother and others. And have found a wonderful TCM practitioner in London. It is a slow road to recovery, but as you say, their deep, holistic approach to one’s health and its manifestations is subtle, nuanced and I am seeing more improvements as time goes on. They were also very honest, saying that it would take one year for my condition to noticeably improve, due to its severity (they think I’ve had it for at least 8 years without knowing.)

It feels good to be investing in my health, resting and slicing the evil out of my life. When an illness appears, it changes things – you need to listen to your body, the messages it’s sending you, and protect your self.

Anonomous
Anonomous
10 years ago

Coming to the truth of these “secret under cover agents” aka Narcs is like waking up from The Matrix. You are like the black-leather clad, kick-some-ass Trinity who is directing the newly awakened to follow the white rabbit….some make it out, some don’t. Watch that film from the perspective of Narcs and you will see a lot of similarities. “Mr Anderson”.

I’ve been so deeply traumatized by Nmom, Nsis, and their enablers that I haven’t been able to form one caring, authentic friendship. I do have an amazing husband and two beautiful children, own two homes and successful. But the problem is I was primed for prey. You mention that we grow up thinking weird is normal and reject normal, healthy relationships. Thankfully, males in my life were more enabling than narc, but females were the narcs. Hence, I gravitated to alpha, narc girlfriends who felt like home to me, and rejected the kind, boring girls. Now that I have two precious daughters, I’m trying to stop this cycle. One thing I do is validate them. Yes, even a toddler. I validate their feelings of frustration instead of punishing or shaming. Validation is powerful. Our home is filled with love and acceptance of Who they are, their authentic souls. I want them to know what normal is, and when around Narcs, their radar will go off and run. They need to know the red flags.

Today, I’m über conscious when Narcs come around. There is a different energy. One of the signs I’ve experienced is that they immediately begin to treat you as lesser than right off the bat. They ask a lot of nosy questions while not revealing much about themselves in regards to their rapid-fire questions. At least, that’s a sign of insincerity. The stare – I actually witnessed a woman’s eyes turn color (darker/black almost). All flow of information comes from her only – “the neighborhood is having a luncheon etc.” without getting an invite or hearing anything from others. They have a pristine rep and use that to alienate you. Also, their husbands act submissive is a big sign. Now, try to imagine meeting these Narc bitchy bully’s over and over again from the cradle to a neighbor. What is it about me that keeps me in their crosshairs?!?! Do they know I can see them now for who? Why am I the pariah everywhere I go, and can’t connect with any women – from church to neighborhood to play groups? Something about me feels otherworldly after going thru my nightmare.

Will you write more on this subject in your blog?

Merry Christmas!

anonomomomomomom
anonomomomomomom
Reply to  Anonymous Conservative
9 years ago

I might be a bit late to the party while reading this including all the comments and just by chance stumbled upon it.

If it was chance or not – who knows, because right now I am in a lawcase from my former employer wanting to have all my wage for several years back (like 200k). And while I saw things afterwards which I didn’t pay attention to before (the naive and kind soul I was), this stuff here really helped to open my eyes and certainly will help me with my strategy from here on.

My narc mainly isn’t that big of a deal, because my life is going pretty good and there is constant improvement and for the case of the lawcase being loss I have several backup plans. Its merely annoying and the lawsystem is simply frustrating and just a pile of complete crap. In my native language we have the saying: “Being right and getting right.”

Anyway – I want to add a few things to this and to the Anonomous wife.

1. Its really interesting – even if I hope that you get healthy – that you have (or hopefully had) heart and colon issues. Similar to the topic of traditional chinese medicine I have been for a while into the topic of how most (if not all) physical problems are caused by mental issues and how certain organs are responsible for certain problems, etc. For example: Men tend to have more kidney stones while women tend to have more gall stones. The gall by this topic is responsible for aggression – Something women in general have more issues learning to handle than men.

So in the case of heart and colon:
Heart -> That should be quite obvious with this thinking. Heartbroken, hurt, scarred, whatever. Need to be more details what the problem with the heartissue is, but its obvious its something related to the very core of love.
Colon -> Digestion. Digesting outside inputs. By Anonomous saying that she still can’t form authentic and close friendships it kinda gives away heart as well as colon. The issue isnt fully overcome and healed yet – its figuratively not digested and the scars on the heart are still hurting.

I hope that makes sense as I am not the best explainer.

2. I don’t think hating Narcissts is the right way to go and neither do I think it’s Anonomous issue. Hate is a way of letting the Narcisst poison you and a way of letting them win. It’s pointless negativity and energy put into it. Instead should just cast them out of your life and feel sympathy for being so horrible – the kind of sympathy where you don’t want to do anything for them though.

I think the Narcissts are still preying upon Anonomous, because the wounds aren’t healed – they still see her as a potential prey and so they try to get at here. After all, there are always two to it. For every bully there needs to be someone weak enough of a link to be the target for the bully. The bully can’t bully people wo stand up for themselves (at least the majority doesnt do it). It’s like how animals sense fear in you – The Bully / Narcisst senses weakness in you.
That’s why its with everything in life that you reap what you sow. All change starts within us and if we go up against narcissts over and over and over again, then it means we haven’t overcome their influence to us and not learned our lesson about it (spiritual lesson or general life lesson doesnt matter for this).

3. Since there are a few german speakers here as far as I could follow and some americans can still speak german because of their roots I recommend a free book about manipulation techniques. Its very dry, but its the most extensive book on the topic I have ever read and gives you guys insight about what techniques the narcisst potentially uses against you. 100 Pages of pure insight and every technique explained with examples. Unfortunately it was written by a german as a hobby and never translated.

Methoden der Manipulation by Elias@everymail.net / Elias.Erdmann@gmx.de
Searching for “Methoden der Manipulation Elias” should have it on page1 on your searchengine of choice.

4. Life is too precious to let others ruin yours.

DMW
DMW
10 years ago

Hello, I have read every word of the comments above many times and have felt much saner for it. Thank you so very much. My mother is a narcissist and my father is – I can only describe it as her enabler and defender. I am an only child, now 56. I have a great husband of 30 years and 2 great sons. The crushing persistent emotional abuse I have suffered has gone on all my life and still continues. The belittling of me compared to the ‘golden child’ cousin I have and his 2 ‘golden sons’ is still an ever present tool she uses. My cousin and his sons are lovely people. Everyone in the family just tolerates her, and do not stand up to her. My parents have lost many of their friends over the years – and they cut people out also. My extended family are nice people – they say to me that I have been a terrific daughter, and my parents are so lucky to have a great son in law too. You are so right when you say that you can spot a Narcissist as they get older. She is not so cute anymore. So many more frequent verbally rabid attacks of me – and my husband – where she is literally foaming at the mouth. Gone are the clever veiled comments and endless presuppositions that confused me and tied me in knots. I am employing all of your advise. I have restricted contact. I am polite and calm when we meet them. I stand up to her calmly and I tell her when she is being offensive and that that is unacceptable, and I move on. The fact that she is not getting a rise out of me and that I do not get angry, and never get upset now drives her crazy. I have stopped buying her random gifts and and taking her out – because nothing I ever did was enough and she always found something – many things to moan about. She drowns you in moaning and negativity. However, the backlash has started now – and we don’t know where it will go next. We bought a house, second home, 50 miles away. My parents stopped speaking to us after they told us what they thought of our selfish behaviour in ‘moving so far away’, (we still have a flat 6 miles from them). My mother told me she had cancelled Christmas – she was adamant. After 3 weeks they called us to come around, ‘things were very bad there’. We guessed it was for an argument. It was. But we didn’t argue. We were calm and reasonable. My mother ranted on. Only for 2 hours, she is 88 now. I replied calmly to all of it. I have walked out before – but this time I thought we would sit it out, although both my parents were so angry I thought they may have strokes. This made her worse. She finished by telling us they were going to the ‘golden people’ for Christmas day. (I knew they had been invited). My husband and I spent Christmas alone – and very peaceful it was too!
So, I and my husband have followed all your advise and clearly my parents are reeling from this new approach. But they are in their late 80s now. I want to be the good attentive daughter I was, back when my mother was mostly just bearable. I want to support them like I always have – but my mother’s behaviour has got so much worse throughout this year and my father defending her – even saying that because she is my mother she has every right to say what she likes to me – with my husband saying no-one can speak to another person this way, it is very wrong. I know logic, good sense, reasonableness et al have no place in dealing with a narcissist but the strength and long periods of mental peace I have gained by quietly defending myself and stating what is unacceptable behaviour from her is battling in my head with my need to be kind, caring and useful to my elderly parents. (I know – well tough, hey and their loss!). It is just I have always believed people can change – I have seen it and believe in positivism and all that matters is what you do next in life. But I don’t believe she will change. I don’t believe she is sane. I wish this would stop, but it won’t, will it?

DMW
DMW
10 years ago

Sorry, my previous comment asks a daft question that I know the answer to. Narcissists cannot change. My mother will always be a Narcissist. The thing is I, like most people have grown and changed. Hence I politely stand up for myself now. It is the success of this new way I have found to behave that has revealed to me how appalling her behaviour was and continues to be. I suppose what I haven’t got a clue about now is just how to talk to her, or endure her. I have no love for her, I am not bitter against her because I am sane, strong and came through all the. I am going to still see her on a restricted basis – but she knows that my politeness and talking about nothing in particular is different and she knows that I know about her. I find this quite chilling – what is she going to back at me with next? Again, I thank you and everyone who has contributed on this page, such wise words, and shared strories have really helped me.